Zaim Qyteza Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Can anyone help me to identify the uniform and the symbols of this unity. The photo is made in Albania about 1916-1918.Regards, Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Can anyone help me to identify the uniform and the symbols of this unity. The photo is made in Albania about 1916-1918.Regards, Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hallo Artan Lame Looking at the Insignia on the Fez of some of the Unit, particularly the guy in the foregroundI would say they are from a Heavy Machine-gun Unit, recruited in Bosnia? Insignia shown in close detail at:http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3391...mp;#entry320267Kevin in Deva. :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hallo Artan Lame Looking at the Insignia on the Fez of some of the Unit, particularly the guy in the foregroundI would say they are from a Heavy Machine-gun Unit, recruited in Bosnia? Insignia shown in close detail at:http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3391...mp;#entry320267Kevin in Deva. Hi Kevin,Thank you for your help. Why do you think that they are Bosnians, and not Albanians? What about the letters to the piece of stofa sewing to the fez?Regards,Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hallo Artan, By the way great pictures.I assume Bosnia, hence the use of the unsure forgive my ignorance, but, when was Albania part of the A-H Empire??After five hundred years of Ottoman domination, an independent Albania was proclaimed in 28 November 1912. The country adopted a republican form of government in 1920The number / letters on the Fez might be an indication of unit / Regiment,but too indistinct to my eyes.I think Rick might be able to add more to this discussion.Kevin in Deva. :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iver Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) I think albanian legion had black-red kokarde on the fez.. the number on the fez is identification of the unit used from year 1917.. if I see good, is there BJ? - maybe bosn. herzegovinian j?ger bataillon? Edited February 22, 2009 by Iver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Artan,The Fez was introduced into the AH armed forces specifically for the Boznia-Herzegovinian troops and became their symbol during WWI.The oilcloth badge was introduced to identify the many different bodies of troops dressed in identical uniforms and was to be attached to the left side of the field cap. The Field Grey Fez for troops was introduced in 1915 and had two thread loops for the attachment of a cap badge. Hence the picture of the oilcloth patch in your foto. The lettering on the patch appears to be RJZ which I do not have a listing for. However, RTS falls under the K. k. Landwehr und Landsturm - Kavallerie listing and stands for Reitende Tiroler Landeschatzandivision while RDS stands for Reitende Dalmatiner Landeschatzandivision. I hope this helps.Regards,Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hallo Artan, am I right in thinking that this is a large group shot?If so can you post a picture of it as it is without being cropped?I notice two medal / Cross in the picture, and the pistol in the officers hand!!Kevin in Deva. :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Artan,The Fez was introduced into the AH armed forces specifically for the Boznia-Herzegovinian troops and became their symbol during WWI.The oilcloth badge was introduced to identify the many different bodies of troops dressed in identical uniforms and was to be attached to the left side of the field cap. The Field Grey Fez for troops was introduced in 1915 and had two thread loops for the attachment of a cap badge. Hence the picture of the oilcloth patch in your foto. The lettering on the patch appears to be RJZ which I do not have a listing for. However, RTS falls under the K. k. Landwehr und Landsturm - Kavallerie listing and stands for Reitende Tiroler Landeschatzandivision while RDS stands for Reitende Dalmatiner Landeschatzandivision. I hope this helps.Regards,GordonHi all,During the WWI Albania was the country with the ?Guinness record? of the country where passed the greatest number of different Armies. Mainly, the north of Albania was under the A-H occupation, the south under Italian Army and Greek Army, the oriental part was under the French Army (Armee de l?Orient). A part of central zone was under the Bulgarian Army. Other armies passed and fighting in Albania, during 1914-1918, were Serbian Army, Montenegrin Army, German Units, British Units, Dutch officers, and on the end on the French army, in Kor?a (south Albania) was an Indochinese Regiment and another Senegalese Regiment (!!!). The unique Army that was missing in Albania during this period was the Albanian Army.Each foreign Army created Units with Albanians, with diferent uniforms badges, symbols and so on. So were a lot of Albanians wearing an uniform, that fought against other Albanians with another uniform. A real mess and chaos!!!I have a great lot of photos of Albanians military men, under the different Armies during WWI, but I have many difficulties to identify all the elements of their uniforms.Here attach another photo of Albanians in A-H Army. 1- He is an Austrian officer and an notorious albanologist. 2- He is Albanian. What is his rank? What is his cocard in the fez? Maybe black and read one? What is the distinctive on his breast? From his pockets hanging the chains of a pocket watch (was an albanian mode of these period). What it is his belt? He has rank insignia in his shoulders. Why? He has another distinctive on his left part of the fez. What can it be? 3- He is Albanian. What are his collar patches? Maybe it is an mitrallieur?Why his fez is nonmilitary one and w/o any cocard or distinctive on it? 4- He is a notorious Albanian patriot. Do you want more questions? Regards,Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Another question for the Albanian no.2 of the picture. Why their stars of the collar patch, are 5-pointed an not 6-pointed, as on the A-H Army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hallo Artan, am I right in thinking that this is a large group shot?If so can you post a picture of it as it is without being cropped?I notice two medal / Cross in the picture, and the pistol in the officers hand!!Kevin in Deva. Hi Kevin, Hi to all,During the WWI Albania was the country with the ?Guinness record? of the country where passed the greatest number of different Armies. Mainly, the north of Albania was under the A-H occupation, the south under Italian Army and Greek Army, the oriental part was under the French Army (Armee de l?Orient). A part of central zone was under the Bulgarian Army. Other armies passed and fighting in Albania, during 1914-1918, were Serbian Army, Montenegrin Army, German Units, British Units, Dutch officers, and on the end on the French army, in Kor?a (south Albania) was an Indochinese Regiment and another Senegalese Regiment (!!!). The unique Army that was missing in Albania during this period was the Albanian Army.Each foreign Army created Units with Albanians, with diferent uniforms badges, symbols and so on. So were a lot of Albanians wearing an uniform, that fought against other Albanians with another uniform. A real mess and chaos!!!I have a great lot of photos of Albanians military men, under the different Armies during WWI, but I have many difficulties to identify all the elements of their uniforms.Here attach another photo of Albanians in A-H Army. 1- It is an Austrian officer and an notorious albanologist. 2- It is Albanian. What is his rank? What is his cocard in the fez? Maybe black and read one? What is the distinctive on his breast? From his pockets hanging the chains of a pocket watch (was an albanian mode of these period). What it is his belt? He has rank insignia in his shoulders. Why? He has another distinctive on his left part of the fez. What can it be?Why his stars of the collar patch, are 5-pointed an not 6-pointed, as on the A-H Army?3- It is Albanian. What are his collar patches? Maybe it is an mitrallieur?Why his fez is nonmilitary one and w/o any cocard or distinctive on it? 4- It is a notorious Albanian patriot. Do you want more questions? Regards,Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Edited February 24, 2009 by Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Hi,The first lot of photos are definately of a bosn. herzegovinian machine gun bataillon. The letters on the fez are BJ 2 (not very clear, but this is definately what it is), and this indicates a bosn. herzegovinian j?ger bataillon (BJ).The other photo showing the variation of (Albainian) uniforms could be post 1918. Notice the lack of distinguishing insignia on the Officer (if that's what he is) on the left; not medals that I can see. I am not certain that the second man is wearing a fez, it looks like a version of the Serbian cap (can't remember the proper name ), pulled down to his ears thus flattening it out. If you look carefully you can see what appears to be a crease down the centre and the raised edges. Regards,Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Hi,The first lot of photos are definately of a bosn. herzegovinian machine gun bataillon. The letters on the fez are BJ 2 (not very clear, but this is definately what it is), and this indicates a bosn. herzegovinian j?ger bataillon (BJ).The other photo showing the variation of (Albainian) uniforms could be post 1918. Notice the lack of distinguishing insignia on the Officer (if that's what he is) on the left; not medals that I can see. I am not certain that the second man is wearing a fez, it looks like a version of the Serbian cap (can't remember the proper name ), pulled down to his ears thus flattening it out. If you look carefully you can see what appears to be a crease down the centre and the raised edges. Regards,IanDear Ian,You can be sure that the fez of the person No.2 is an Albanian fez, one of the many models used in central Albania. Apart of that, I know who these persons are. I have photos of at least 6 different types of Albanian fez used in Albanian units of A-H Army. A part of them, is impossible to find a Serbian soldier, an Austrian officer and other Albanians standing together during the WWI !!!Regards,Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Dear Ian,You can be sure that the fez of the person No.2 is an Albanian fez, one of the many models used in central Albania. Apart of that, I know who these persons are. I have photos of at least 6 different types of Albanian fez used in Albanian units of A-H Army. A part of them, is impossible to find a Serbian soldier, an Austrian officer and other Albanians standing together during the WWI !!!Regards,ArtanDear Ian,For your courisity, here enclosed some diferent albanian fez used in A-H Army.Best,Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Artan,Thank you for posting the very interesting (and educational) additional photos of the various fez being worn. Obvisously, my earlier statement about the wearing of the Serbian style cap is incorrect. Regards,Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Dear Ian,I apologize if I was a little abrupt with my response. However I'm waiting for your kind help for the questions that I have done with the mail of yesterday.Regards,Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Artan,You have nothing too apologise for, I found your response to be both enlightning and polite.To your questions:1. He is wearing the rank insignia of a Hauptmann. Do you know who he is and if so can you give us a name?2. Perhaps an Albanien gendarmerie? He is wearing the rank of 'Zugsf?hrer', but I am not certain of the local Albanian rank structure but I assume it was the standard A-H ranks one.As for his fez I think he may be wearing the red and black ALBANIEN cockade, but the photo is too dark to be certain. As for the badge on his chest it could be a unit, a town or even a commemorative pin; once again the photo isn't clear enough.The belt buckle is quite interesting. My first thought was ah! a Turkish belt buckle, but on second thoughts I am thinking a German buckle - by why either?Unfortuantely I can be off no help with the uniforms. My knowledge base is way to shallow.3. You wrote, 'Why his fez is nonmilitary one and w/o any cocard or distinctive on it?' my understanding was that a variety of fez were worn and I have seen one or two photo of Albaniens wearing this white type of fez without and without a cockade.Regards,Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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