Payton Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 Hi, I hope some of you out there could help me on some information on W.W.II KM Officers tunics. I would like to know did all tunics have the button holes on the front lapels? I have noticed some do not have the holes is it a original tunic? Also the lowest buttons do they always start at the top of the lower pockets or are their some lower or higher due to tailor variations? Thank you
Harrier Posted March 10, 2009 Posted March 10, 2009 Speaking ONLY from my personal experience, the buttonholes are always present on the lapels (running in a horizontal fashion) and the lower buttons always start at the level of the top of the lower side pockets and not below them. Member "KMSpain" here is a true expert and might be able to say better. The reefer jackets of other navies, especially European ones, are a fertile ground for fakers of KM tunics, but (again, in my observation) the buttons are placed differently. The lapel buttonholes are also sometimes different, with French jackets having a buttonhole only on one lapel. Danish jackets are almost correct, but, again, the button location is a tell-tale factor. Bundesmarine tunics are often converted by adding an extra set of buttons, but the location is a giveaway, with the buttons being below the line of the side pockets.I suppose tailoring COULD vary somewhat, but I would be extremely wary of any tunic which deviated from these standards.
KM-SPAIN Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) The information from Harrier is basically correct, but I do not agree with all.Most KM reefer tunics has the lapels buttons holes as the pair of buttons under the lapels, but is not rare to find tunics with this pair of buttons omitted and also without the lapels button holes (I have one). About the lower button row, usually is lined up with the he top of the lower side pockets, but as almost all officer reefer tunic were private made you can find some variations. Naval tunic from other countries and times have different configuration as Harrier said but also different tress on the cuffs, so is not easy to fake a KM tunic. Anyway you can find KM tunics made in France or Denmark that are 100% original, so finally the way is your experience and feeling. Edited March 11, 2009 by KM-SPAIN
nesredep Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 The information from Harrier is basically correct, but I do not agree with all.Most KM reefer tunics has the lapels buttons holes as the pair of buttons under the lapels, but is not rare to find tunics with this pair of buttons omitted and also without the lapels button holes (I have one). About the lower button row, usually is lined up with the he top of the lower side pockets, but as almost all officer reefer tunic were privete pade you can find some variations. Naval tunic from other countries and times have different configuration as Harrier said but also different tress on the cuffs, so is not easy to fake a KM tunic. Anyway you can find KM tunics made in France or Denmark that are 100% original, so finally the way is your experience and feeling.Hello!Please post some Tunic from France and Denmark and ( Norway ).Thanks for help. All the bestNesredep
Harrier Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 I knew Eduardo would have good information! I certainly agree about many tunics lacking the buttons underneath the lapels. My personal experience has just been that even on the tunics where these were lacking, the buttonholes themselves were still present. I am glad to learn that Eduardo has one without the holes! Regarding the tresse (rank rings on the sleeves), he is also right that other counties use different styles. I have seen fakes, unfortunately, where the only way to detect the presence of the prior rings (because they had been removed and other placed over the same location) was to look underneath the sleeve lining for tell-tale signs of other stitching patterns (circles, etc.).When I get home from work tonight, I will try to photograph tunics from France and Denmark.
KM-SPAIN Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 Harrier, as I told you are basically right, and the only with I do not 100% agree is about the lapels button holes, is not difficult to see period pictures in this way, but the usual is to find them. Until now I have not seen a good fake from a KM tunic, but here in Spain that is not easy.I would like to see also your pictures of other countries made KM tunics.
Harrier Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 Eduardo, I don't have yet any KM tunics which I know were made in other countries (although I have one on the way now made in Oslo, which I will post after I get it). The photos I will take tonight are of regular French and Danish ones! Best, Harrier
KM-SPAIN Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 Ok, that would be also a good information. When you have your new tunic I would like to see it also.Here mine without buttons and button holes in the lapels.
Payton Posted March 11, 2009 Author Posted March 11, 2009 Hi, Thank you for your solid advice. The main reason I posted this was I have such a tunic. It has all the proper German features and good stitching. All the buttonholes are matching in their stitching. The tress looks correct. However the lapels have no buttonholes and the lower buttons are positioned about midway of the pocket flap. I will try to put pictures on for your advice. One other thing which I noticed is the tunic has 4 loops for 2 badges. They are done very well and in the proper threading. Most that people try to add are either done in the wrong thread or not of this quality. Any comments on this? Thanks
Guest Rick Research Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 A name label inside the pocket always helps to verify whether an officer with Rank "X" actually existed.
Harrier Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2009/post-2778-1236808607.jpgHere are a couple of tunics which could be, except for a couple of points which I think are important, easily converted to KM tunics by any halfway skilled person with a sewing machine. First up, a Danish tunic from (I believe) the late 40's or early 50's.
Harrier Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 The former location of sleeve rings (with some thread still in place). This area could easily be "steamed out" by a cleaner and new rings (especially admiral tresse) added on top.
Harrier Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) The sleeve lining is a perfect match and typically European. Edited March 11, 2009 by Harrier
Harrier Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 Here's the problem: the lower set of buttons is too low next to the side pockets.
Harrier Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 Here's the problem: Only one buttonhole and that at the wrong angle.
Harrier Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 Perhaps I am paranoid, but I buy these things (which are incredibly cheap) to study how they are made and what fakers would have to work with. If anyone thinks it would be helpful, I'll be glad to post a Bundesmarine tunic from the late 50's to show what might be done with one of those.
nesredep Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 Hello!This is very good referense and informativ collectors tread.Please post more of these exsample. All the bestNesredep
Harrier Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) A standard Bundesmarine tunic. There are NO buttonholes in the lapels (which, I suppose, means a tailor could add the right kind easily). Edited March 12, 2009 by Harrier
Harrier Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 These tunics have the correct insignia already in place.
Payton Posted March 11, 2009 Author Posted March 11, 2009 Hi Harrier, I am trying to post my pictures of the Officers tunic but Iam having a tough time , I could send them to you through email and maybe you can get them on the site? Let me know ,Payton
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