Zaim Qyteza Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Dear all,In his book ?Ordens Lexikon?, Klietmann writes that King Zog of Albania has awarded (around the years 1930) the King Albert I with the ?Collier d?Honneur d'Albanie (attached an image of this Collier). I have seen many sites where they speak about of the orders received from King Albert, but I did not find any sign of this Collier. Can anyone help me with any information about this question?Best Regards,Artan
g_deploige Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) This collar has to bee in the collections of the Belvue Museum in Brusselshttp://www.belvue.be/home.php?la=ensome background informationCollier d'honneur de l'ordre de Skanderberg,avec briliants et rubis (1925)10 Dec 1929, remise au nom d'ahmed Zogou, roi d'Albanie sous le nom de Skanderberg III, par une mission sp?ciale dirig?e par le ministre du palais Ekram Bey Libohovad'ahmed Zogou, roi d'Albanie sous le nom de Skanderberg III re?oit le 4/11/1929 le Grand Cordon de l'ordre de Leopoldle ministre du palais Ekram Bey Libohova re?oit le 4/9/1929 Grand Officier de l'Ordre de LeopoldGuy Edited March 19, 2009 by g_deploige
James Hoard Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 This collar has to bee in the collections of the Belvue Museum in Brusselshttp://www.belvue.be/home.php?la=ensome background informationCollier d'honneur de l'ordre de Skanderberg,avec briliants et rubis (1925)10 Dec 1929, remise au nom d'ahmed Zogou, roi d'Albanie sous le nom de Skanderberg III, par une mission sp?ciale dirig?e par le ministre du palais Ekram Bey LibohovaIndeed so. The decoration King Albert received (and the drawing posted above) was the Collar of the Order of Skanderbeg.The Grand Coller of Albania was a different recoration. Megan has a small b/w picture of the badge and a part of the chain on her excellent website. Please see http://www.medals.org.uk/albania/albania-k...-kingdom005.htmCheers,James
Megan Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 Isn't Arton Lame's picture a better version of the b&w one on my site?
James Hoard Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 Isn't Arton Lame's picture a better version of the b&w one on my site?Isn't the badge on your collar plain and un-enamelled, presumably in plain gold?
Megan Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 Yes - but the rest is very similar. That picture on my site has been there a VERY long time, not sure where it came from even (and I'm generally meticulous about sources, there's a big archive file on my hard drive with the original images filed under where I got 'em from, but it predates that!). Unfortunately I don't have a picture of the collar of the Order of Skandebeg It's all fascinating though, and worth exploring further.
922F Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 James, Once again, nomenclature confusion. A presentation given at the 2008 OMSA convention detailed the development and history of this award including apparent name changes. Artan's color illustration, either directly from Bertrand archives or drawn from the same archive for use in Guy Stair Sainty/Rafal Heydel-Mankoo's World Orders of Knighthood & Merit, shows the obverse. Megan's illustration depicting the reverse of the insignia appears to be from Klietmann's "Ordens-Lexicon, Vol 2" or from that same illustration reproduced in Klenau's European Orders. Do you have statutes indicating that the Order of Skanderbeg included a collar? No statutes or other documents known to me, other than the flawed World Orders of Knighthood & Merit entry, suggest such grade of that Order existed or currently exists. There is no bibliographical cite or other evidence supporting the World Orders of Knighthood & Merit assertion regarding the name of this insignia. It appears that Mankoo accepted bad information regarding the award name or made an incorrect assumption.Artan and g_deploige, Belvue [also known as Bellevue Palace and site of the Belgian Dynasty Museum] Museum staff attempted to find this collar which SHOULD BE in its Albert I collection without any success in 1993, 1994 and 1995. Again in 2000, it could not be located there. Only a record card [with the information quoted by g_deploige] could be found. Staff at the Royal Museum of the Army and Military History in Brussels and the Royal Museum for Central Africa, Tervuren, Belgium [which house some decorations relating to King Albert I] reported in 1994 that it was not in their collections. Speculation that Albert's Albanian collar [and some of his other decorations] somehow got intermingled with Leopold III's awards continues. A London auction house sold a portion of Leopold III's awards in the 1980s (approximately) but this collar was not one of those lots.
James Hoard Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 Do you have statutes indicating that the Order of Skanderbeg included a collar? No statutes or other documents known to me, other than the flawed World Orders of Knighthood & Merit entry, suggest such grade of that Order existed or currently exists. There is no bibliographical cite or other evidence supporting the World Orders of Knighthood & Merit assertion regarding the name of this insignia. It appears that Mankoo accepted bad information regarding the award name or made an incorrect assumption.The authors may have taken the information from King Albert's entry in the annual Belgian Court Almanac. A version of the entry seems to have been copied to this website http://www.ars-moriendi.be/ALBERT_I_FR.HTMI do not have any statutes myself but one assumes that King Albert received a set when he received his collar.All this being said, King Zog does wear another collar in this picture. The second one below the Annunziata, don't know what it is:I thought at first that the badge attached to it may be the Order of Bravery 1st class but it does not seem to be so.Cheers,James
922F Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 James--The collar/badge between King Zog's Annunziata collar/badge and his Albanian Order of Bravery badge in this illustration is a portion of his Romanian Order of Carol I insignia. Zog's Albanian Order of Bravery neck badge appears to the photo viewer's left of his Italian Annunziata star; the Carol star is to the viewer's right of the Annunziata star.
Zaim Qyteza Posted March 19, 2009 Author Posted March 19, 2009 James--The collar/badge between King Zog's Annunziata collar/badge and his Albanian Order of Bravery badge in this illustration is a portion of his Romanian Order of Carol I insignia. Zog's Albanian Order of Bravery neck badge appears to the photo viewer's left of his Italian Annunziata star; the Carol star is to the viewer's right of the Annunziata star. Dear all,I saw that the speech has become only about the COLLAR OF ALBANIA and ORDER OF SKANDERBEG. For these reason I think to transfer it, to " type="#_x0000_t75">European (Non Communist States): Medals & Militaria > Southern European & Balkan States: Non Communist Era> COLLAR OF ALBANIA and ORDER OF SKANDERBEG. I do this, with the hope to not annoy the friends of the forum. Thank you all.Regards, Artan
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