Hungary Hungary - WW2 Air Force Dress Daggers

[kostik-b124]

Hello.

I have a dagger Hungarian Air Force 1946 model year.

This is original or fake?

[kostik-b124]

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[kostik-b124]

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[kostik-b124]

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[Janos]

WOW-WOW-WOW, welcome to the forum.

You have a very impressive introduction my friend.

Your dagger is beautiful and 100 % authentic. I wonder how the hell found its way to Minsk, Belorusia...

All in all you have an extremly rare dagger. As far as I know 30-40 pieces were ever produced of these AF daggers.

If you will ever decide to sell it, I am a buyer.

Best regards,

Janos

[kostik-b124]

Hello, Janos!

Thank you for your reply.

Why are you so sure of originality of my dagger?

I placed these photos on Russian military forum, and no one could answer me for certain whether it is original or fake. They say that most likely it is a fake, because they did not stamp a manufacturer's name on original daggers. But I am inclined to think that the lack of stamp on original daggers is a misguiding thinking, like with daggers 1932 model.

I know that this is a rare dagger, to my knowledge, about 50 pieces were made​​. Tell me, please, if there is any literature which describes in detail the dagger of Hungarian Air Force 1946 model year. I heard that there is a dagger in the Museum of Military History in Budapest, maybe someone has photos of the dagger from that museum.

Regards.

Edited October 1, 2012 by kostik-b124

[kostik-b124]

There is another question.

What manufacturer is the mark?

Edited October 1, 2012 by kostik-b124

[Janos]

There is another question.

What manufacturer is the mark?

This mark is for "Szentgotthárdi Kaszagyár" - "Scythe factory of Szentgotthárd" was established in 1901. It was a common trademark on Hungarian blades in the first half of the 20th century.

[Janos]

Hello, Janos!

Thank you for your reply.

Why are you so sure of originality of my dagger?

I placed these photos on Russian military forum, and no one could answer me for certain whether it is original or fake. They say that most likely it is a fake, because they did not stamp a manufacturer's name on original daggers. But I am inclined to think that the lack of stamp on original daggers is a misguiding thinking, like with daggers 1932 model.

I know that this is a rare dagger, to my knowledge, about 50 pieces were made​​. Tell me, please, if there is any literature which describes in detail the dagger of Hungarian Air Force 1946 model year. I heard that there is a dagger in the Museum of Military History in Budapest, maybe someone has photos of the dagger from that museum.

Regards.

Hello,

This dagger is extremely rare, and I doubt if any of the Russian forum members had ever seen an original one.

All they can use is Fedurin's reference book which is full of mistakes and fakes. Especially the Hungarian chapter.

I think the dagger is original because of the following reasons:

- The grip is painted wood and not plastic. All the fakes have plastic grips.

- The scabbard release button is also correct, different than the fakes.

- All wear and patina are matching which is a good sign again.

- I saw and examined dozens of fakes.

- I have an original in my collection and I was lucky to saw other originals in the Museum of Military History in Budapest also.

My problem is, that your dagger has different blade than originals I have seen before and the mark is missing from the reverse of the scabbard throat too.

In my opinion it is probably a parts dagger or a very initial production piece from 1946 made by leftover parts (regarding to the blade which could be a m1932 Hungarian Air Force dagger blade).

But it is not a modern reproduction it is for sure.

I will post photos of my dagger later.

Best regards,

Janos

[Janos]

Hello,

I took photos of my dagger and photos of the article about the m1946 dagger.

The article says approx. 40-50 daggers were ever produced. I wasn't right when mentioned 30-40, sorry.

Janos

[Janos]

And photos of the dagger.

[Janos]

Obverse view

[Janos]

Close-up

Edited October 2, 2012 by Janos

[Janos]

Reverse

[Janos]

Last photo. The locking mechanism is identical to yours too. Another good sign.

Janos

[juno-44]

Hunyadi & Janos,

I know this thread is old, but I'm hoping one of you guys can help me. I picked up this Hungarian Air Force Officer's dagger a few weeks ago and would please like to have your opinions on it. The blade ricasso is stamped with the Hungarian Coat of Arms, the letters "N" are also stamped on the throat of the scabbard and the under guard which I presume is a maker mark. By reading your thread, I presume my dagger is an original one, but is it?

juno-44

[henryw86]

Hello all, I've decided to post this question here since it is the most active...

Has anyone heard of daggers being issued to Royal Hungarian Bodyguards?[ of the king/prime minister?] (during the 1939 period)..

I found something in budapest the other day and wasn't sure if it even exist in the past or not.

there are etchings as well as a small gilding on the blade itself..one side said " .... Vilmos testor 1939"

There is a coat of arm stamp but no serial number..

On the scabbard there is a color coat of arm inlay similar to this one in picture ->

371361d1342364701t-real-fake-hungarian-dagger-t2ec16rhjgoe9nuqfrtibp-y2bszw-60_12.jpg

I know its hard to say without any pictures to justify itself.

I couldn't find anything similar at all on internet so hopefully someone could tell me whether they exist or not..

Thank you very much!

Edited October 12, 2012 by henryw86

[Janos]

Hello,

all the so-called Bodyguard daggers on the market are fakes.

I doubt that they even existed - probably fantasy daggers.

Save your money, do not buy.

[GREAKLY]

What do you think of this one? It's 50% larger than the usual one. Could it be general's (if such rank existed among Hungarian firefighters) or else?

Edited April 29, 2016 by GREAKLY

[Gordon Craig]

Greakly,

I have never seen anything like this before.  There is an excellent fireman's museum in Budapest.  Perhaps if you contact them they might be able to give you some information on this dagger.  There are senior officers in the fire department in Hungary with the equivalent rank of General Officer.  I have one of their uniforms.  Here is a link to the Fire Department Museum in Budapest. I've spent many hours browsing in this museum and the people there were always very helpful to me.

http://muzeum.katasztrofavedelem.hu/

Regards,

Gordon

[GREAKLY]

Thank you very much, Gordon. I will contact the museum. Hope they speak some English as I do not speak any Hungarian.

Personally I believe this dagger is original. I have never seen such nickel (or chromium) plating and etching of any of the fake blades. And such hallmark, which is also etched, not stamped. Also the coat of arms on the cross guard is completely different from the "usual" enameled ones as well as the etching on the scabbard.

What especially convinces me in the originality of this dagger is its size. All its parts are noticeably larger than the corresponding ones of the "regular" fireman's dagger. If it were a fake the forgers would have to make bigger dyes in order to produce those parts. Such dyes would have cost considerable amount of money. So, the only way to offset those costs and make some profit would be to make a significant number of such fakes. Yet, nobody I talked to has never seen anything like that.

[Gordon Craig]

Greakly,

There were English speaking firemen at the museum when I used to visit it.  Good luck with your search.  It would be interesting to find out what they can tell you.

Regards,

Gordon

 

[GREAKLY]

As of today no reply from the museum. I tried to contact them twice.