EK 1870 1870 EK1 Prinzen - thought + opinions solicited

[Streptile]

Hello board members,

I am a new member. Yesterday I posted a thread in 1939 EKs asking for help

identifying a cross I've had in my collection for years. To my great surprise

it turned out to be a well-known fake despite being very convincing.

I am now a bit chastened, and would like to put an EK question to the

Imperial enthusiasts among you.

I have the chance to buy this 1870 EK1 Prinzen at a decent price:

Here's what I know about it: Silver rims, blackened iron center,

36mm x 36mm, thin pin setup, supposedly dates from Jubilee c.1895.

Now, I was initially a bit skeptical, but after doing some research I'm

a bit more confident. I'd like to show my research and have your opinions.

Below is this cross for sale (Right) next to a known original (Left)

(p.116 in S.T. Previtera's "The Iron Time" 1st Edition):

Just by eye I think it compares very favorably. The known original is also

36mm sq. and has a thin pin on the reverse. It is also known to date from

the jubilee period, c. 1895.

I superimposed the cross for sale at 50% opacity on top of the known original

to see if the core details align. Here is the two crosses offset to show opacity:

And here they are aligned:

Now, the core details align perfectly. The date, which is quite distinctive,

is identical. The W and crown are identical also.

I also counted the beads on two arms, and the bead count is identical.

My concerns are, simply: I have not been able to see better quality

photos, or photos of the reverse. Also, the small flaw in the beading

on the lower right (facing) of the 6-o'clock arm.

However, given the amount of evidence pointing to it's similarity to a

known original, I am inclined to go for it. Can anyone offer me any advice?

Thanking you in advance,

Trevor

Edited March 28, 2009 by Streptile

[Kris D]

Hi,

I'd ask the vendor to email you photo's of the reverse, confirm the core is magnetic and the medal of three part construction. If so I'd go for it but you can never really know until you've got it in your hands.

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello Trevor:

In your posting you mention that the piece from the book "The Iron Time" is a "known original". I would caution you not to necessarily reach this conclusion without other supporting facts regarding pieces of this type.

Best regards,

"SPM"

[Glenn R]

I'd always exercise caution without copious close up photos, especially with a desirable piece like a Prinzen. It is possible to hide a number of obvious pointers with vague pictures. Unless it's someone you trust implicitly then ask for close ups of the relevant bits. I don't have enough knowledge of these to advise, but I'm sure with more pic's there are people on here who will be able to assist you. As to using books such as The Iron Time and nothing else, I'd say be cautious. It's a great book and I love my copy dearly but it is not a definitive source book.

Good luck Trevor.

Glenn.

[Streptile]

Thank you for your replies. This piece is coming from a reputable dealer, and I've paid for it already. I also posted a thread in WAF and got some opinions there which further inclined me towards the purchase. I felt confident enough, and the price was quite attractive. When it arrives - which should be this coming week or shortly thereafter - I will post detailed photos here for your approval, and will take advantage of the dealer's return policy if there appears to be a problem.

Thank you also for your warnings regarding the use of The Iron Time, or any book, as a definitive reference. I have learned my lesson on that front, as a nice 39EK2 Schinkel B-type I felt sure was original as it was pictured in both The Iron Cross of 1939 and Forman's Guide, 2nd Ed., has proven to be of postwar manufacture.

~TR

[Glenn R]

I look forward to seeing some pictures of the cross when you get it. I'm sure it will be fine. Most good reference works have the odd mistake in them. It's a vast subject and very difficult to be absolutely accurate in every case. Even the best get caught out. Congratulations on getting to that happy place of looking forward to a new purchase! So addictive isn't it?

Glenn.