19th.C. TRANTER REVOLVER - HELP?

[Mervyn Mitton]

I am hoping that some of the experts in this sub-forum, will be able to identify which model of Tranter this is, and also a date?

I only bought it this morning so, it has yet to be cleaned. I think most of the bluing is under the grime and there is some fine decorative engraving. Unusually, there is an owner's name engraved along the top - JOHN HAYTON GRAHAM'S TOWN -

strangely, the word Graham's Town is shown with an apostrophe and as separate words. Grahamstown is the capital of the eastern Cape and was formed by the 1820 settlers - in (wait for it !) 1820. I spoke to the museum this morning and his name isn't familiar - however, this was the centre for the 7th, 8th, and 9th. Kaffrarian Wars. I found some info. on the web - but it doesn't help date it to a model or, year. Will show a number of photos and will be most grateful for any help.

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Chris Boonzaier]

A long shot... but some names to follow up from text below....

Greetings,

Someone has been in contact with me recently and she is related to Alfred HAYTON, and I wonder if this Alfred is related to John HAYTON 1819-1893 who married Rhoda WEAKLEY, in which case we would be related. So I looking for a link.

We do not know much about Alfred HAYTON, he died 1946 or 1947. His occupation was said to be a gun dealer. He had at least two sons, John HAYTON and Alexander Alfred HAYTON.

Alexander HAYTON was a Brigadier in the South African Army during WW2 and was awarded the DSO in 1946. He had no children.

My contact has letters that indicate that her Hayton branch came from Cumberland, which is where the John HAYTON who married into my family also came from.

Have tried NAAIRs but it seems off line at the moment.

Anyone have the missing links?

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Chris Boonzaier]

A.A. Hayton

1941

- 1942

Commanding Officer 4th South African Brigade, North Africa

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hi,Chris - You beat me to the last picture !! I keep saying to everyone ,how great the store of knowledge is on this forum. The museum knew nothing and really weren't interested in looking. Yet you have found the probable origins of this man, and all from the 'darkest' depths of Canada I don't know what a Tranter would have cost in those days, but a lot ,so,he must have been a man of some means. The best one we ever had brought in was recovered - many years ago - from a skirmish site from the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879 - it had obviously been dropped at the time and lay under a rock for over 120 years - and was still in fair condition. The weight always surprises me - must be at least 4 lbs. (2 K's)

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

dont overlook that at least one of the family was a gun dealer, maybe it was in the family.

Maybe the name on the shooter refers to the seller?

[Mervyn Mitton]

I hadn't thought of that - any money your'e probably right. I'll try to find out if there is a trade directory for Grahamstown. Meanwhile, I will be grateful if anyone can help with model - also, does anyone know a current value ?

[helen]

Lovely gun. I won't be able to tell you anything you don't already know as we've probably researched the same sources. As far as I am aware, Tranter made three models all using double triggers. It was only later that he began work on a single-trigger double-action revolver - the 'fourth' model. We have a double-trigger example in the Museum. As your extract says, in 1863, Tranter secured some British contracts (your weapon doesn't look too dissimilar to the 1863 model?) and his factory in the UK supplied to overseas markets - perhaps explaining its appearance in South Africa? Don't think there was much in the way of new models after 1879 so presumably 1863-1879 is your window! Have a look here: http://www.firearmsmuseum.org.au/TranterHi...wt_hist_fra.htm - the descriptions and ammo specs may be enough to decipher the age and model of your weapon.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Helen - thankyou for your comments and helpful link. I am trying to find the list of shops in Grahamstown in case the name was for a gun shop - records for that period are not easy.

I was going to IM you - there is a topic on The Lounge that could benefit from your input as a museum curator - basically, it is a discussion on what to do with your collection when you 'leave this mortal coil'!

There are a couple of posts you have made that have not yet been answered - I could probably have a 'shot' - but would prefer someone else to answer - I'm sick of seeing my name !!

[helen]

Mervyn,

Thanks for the tip about the topic in the 'Lounge' - I'm sure it would make interesting reading for me. One of the main problems for museums that are not subject-specific (i.e. Royal Armouries) and instead are interested in weapons from a social history or human technology/anthropological point of view (like us!) is that we would love more donations of such material but lack the capacities to store it to sufficient legal requirements. We have gun safes but they are nearly full and buying new ones is not only expensive but always seems to gets pushed to the bottom of the 'we need' pile of priorities. The alarm system for the new firearms display case was incredibly costly to buy and install also. As we don't charge entry to the museum, dispensable money for such things is hard and slow to come by. There is also the problem that a lot of people only want to donate something to a museum if they can be guaranteed it will go on public display and not in a box in reserve collections. Unfortunately, it's difficult - if not impossible - for museums to make that sort of promise. Anyway, I can reiterate this on-topic!

As for the unanswered posts - please do 'have a stab'. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts as you obviously have a wide field of knowledge and after all, it means the topic shoots back up the list of 'most recent' posts and therefore might catch the eye of a new reader...

Helen

[Conrad]

Dear Mervyn,

My family history starts before 1800 and from the Easton Cape. I also have the same John Hayton's revolver. The revolver was passed down to me from my father that got it from his father and so forth. My granddad told me that there were three Tranters made for John Hayton's gundealer in Graham's town. That is why his name was engraved on the bridge of the revolver. As for what I could traced was that I had one and the other one is in the Castle in Cape Town and that the third one was lost. This could be the one that you have found. Could you found more information on John Hayton? The military ones that was made did not have the engravings on it and might reach a amount of £1200 depending the condition of the revolver. The engraved ones are anything from £2000 to £3000 this is without a case and hearsay. Please let me know if you found out more on this revolver. Conrad

[Mervyn Mitton]

Conrad - very nice to hear from you - and welcome to GMIC.

My research did not really get any further with the Tranter - your research showing that three were made with the dealer's name

makes remarkable reading. The weapon was sold a long time ago and - if I remember rightly - went with an arms collector to

Britain. Now that I have closed the shop and retired I don't have the sales records available.

Thankyou for replying - and if you arre a collector, please continue to post. This sub-forum needs some new members. Mervyn

[mickey]

hi mervyn this is a 4th model tranter 120 bore at a guess percussion revolver the lug on the rear of the trigger disengages a sear to fire the weapon engraved model probably made for export to various british colonys in the 1860s very nice revolver that was competing against samuel colts navy and army percussion revolvers as well as the british webley percussion model

[Mervyn Mitton]

Thanks Mickey - that's good information - nice to know exactly which model. Are you a collector ? We

will always welcome posts on your collection . Mervyn

[mickey]

HI Mervyn yes always had an interest and a small collection of percussion revolvers

Mainly colt Adams and a couple of tranters

[mickey]

Of interest this was classed as a pocket pistol by tranter due to its under. 40 caliber much like the superb. 36 navy colt which did not find favour with the British military due to its lack of knockdown power hence the popularity of over 40 calibre with military private pistol purchases

[Nihonto]

Sorry to bump such an old thread, but thought anyone researching Tranters might be interested in the following:

This gun has nothing to do with the John Hayton family as far as ownership goes. John Hayton was a well known Eastern Cape Gunsmith and dealer in the mid 1800's in Grahamstown. As was commonly done in those days, a dealer/importer had his name put on the guns he retailed when he imported them from the manufacturer. There are many Tranters here in South Africa with his name on them, along with other firearms. It merely signifies it was imported and sold through his dealership.