Prussian IOD89 Officer ID

[Mark M]

Hi This is my first post as a member so please excuse any mistakes if I have posted incorrectly.

I am a collector of Imperial German swords and was wondering if anyone can help ID an officer on a presentation sword . The sword is a model 89 in a beautiful state of presentation. The blade is triple engraved with a blued and gilted presentation panel to a Hauptmann Kempf. Unfortunately there is no regiment reference or date to narrow down this officer. The sword is a presentation from what I believe is a veterans organization in Wissener, which I can not find on any maps of Germany.

Does anybody have any suggestions?

[attachmentid=17426]

[Guest Rick Research]

Exceptionally nice clear photograph!

What sort of scabbard does it have-- two suspension rings or one, nickled or black? (Those are the extent of my ability to date when worn, on these).

Can't tell from the inscription whether Hauptmann Kempf was being presented with a gift on his 25th anniversary of joining the ARMY, or 25th year of membership in the Shooting Club, which complicates matters. (If the latter, he could have been 89 years old, for all we'd know!)

Wissen is zipcode 57537, near Siegen in Wesphalia, north of Koblenz. It's the "Wissen-ish Shooting Club," -er being the "of Wissen" modeifier on the end there, as in "Berliner."

There were very few active duty "suspects" indeed and none in the reserves. I have a big gap in my Rank Lists from 1890 until 1902, and the absolute key would be to match one of the TWO possibles as STILL a captain when he received his XXV years Service Cross.

In 1890, one Hauptmann Kempf was in Foot Artillert Regiment 1, way out of the area, and was the senior Major in Foot Art. Rgt. 6 in 1902... having acquired the XXV in the 12 year interim.

The more likely prospect seems to be Hauptmann Kempf of Pioneer Battalion 7 (Koblenz) in 1890-- THAT was in Westphalia, and he has vanished by 1902, suggesting a disappointing military career that might well have ended with taking a pension at his 25th year or so of service.

Thereafter there are more and more JUNIOR Kempfs, but nobody who could have been a Captain with 25 years of any kind of time in. No World War Service, no listing in the Orders Almanac.

Prime Suspect pioneer Captain Kempf had an 1870 Iron Cross 2nd Class and a Red Eagle Order 4th Class in 1890, when he was detached from the Battalion and sent to W?rttemberg on cross-assignment.

Early 1890s Rank Lists (and even better, a W?rttemberg Court and State Handbuch catching him there, would be helpful.

I don't see anybody else likely.

[David Gregory]

The shooting club still exists and has its own website at http://www.sv-wissen.de/start.html

Try contacting them and ask if they have any information on membership history. They might even appreciate an interest in their history.

Edited November 28, 2005 by David Gregory

[Mark M]

Rick

Thanks for the information. The scabbard is a double ringed, nickel plated variety. I will try to attach another photo but with the 60KB limit I am not sure if I have anything that small. The sword looks like it was presented and then put away and never used as it has almost no age to it at all.

Thanks again,

Mark[attachmentid=17454]

[Mark M]

David

Thank you for the link to the shooting club. Usually club members information is confidential but I will give them a try and see if I can get any additional information. If I do I will attach it.

Mark

[Paul C]

Here is what I have on Kempf:

1892 Captain, RAO4, EK2, WF3a Pioneer Batt. #6 Neitze

1893 Captain, same awards, 4. Ing & Inspection, War Acedemy Artillery and Ing. School Militar-Lehrer

1895 Major, same, 1. Ing & Insp.

1897 Major, same + 25 yr. LSC, On the command staff for forts in Wilhelmshaven

1899 Gone

More to follow

Edited November 28, 2005 by Paul Chepurko

[Guest Rick Research]

Fantastic sword photography!

No XXV in 1895? And a Major?

War years counted double for regulars' long service awards, so I was hoping he'd match up in 1893 as still a Hauptmann with the XXV (1870 EK etc).

[Mark M]

Paul/Rick

What was the date of promotion to Major? I looked up the Wissen shooting club and it was founded in 1870. Could this have been a presentation to Hauptmann Kempf on the 25th anniversay of the shooting club (1895)?

Mark

[Guest Rick Research]

No, the inscription in typical third person form of address refers to "his" 25th.