And another query...but on a Bavarian Medal

[notned]

Hello again Gents,

I ahve bought a Bavarian bar on E-bay and will need t replace one medal with the correct Bavarian DA 9yrs service medal.

My Question is on the MVK, Militar Verdienst Kreuz

Now what abbreviations should be used when describing the medal shown? as it has both crown and swords...and what class is this one...the 3rd?

I have already sourced a 9yr to complete the bar and restore it back to original.

Seems to be me lately...getiing a few fix-up bars...oh well, someones gotta do it...

Cheers for the help gents!

Regards

Paul

Edited November 28, 2005 by notned

[notned]

Can you help with this one?

I am perplexed as to why there is two Bavarian MVO's on this bar....

Thanks for your help gents.

Regards

Paul

[HeikoGrusdat]

wow, your second bar is really great!!!! First a MVK 3.class with crown and swords and then a MVK 3.class WITHOUT swords on the peacetime ribbon - very rare and great to look at!!!

On your first bar it is the MVK 3.class with crown and swords - the normal class for sergeants and feldwebel (what is this in english?)

Heiko

Edited November 28, 2005 by HeikoGrusdat

[notned]

Thanks Heiko!

I sort of knew thats what it was...

I still want to know what the abbreviation is for it

MVKCX?

The second bar? really? ok cool

I was under the impression that it might be a Bavarian Reservists Medal 2nd class.

But its nice to know that its a peacetime ribbon on the MVK

Thanks again!

Paul

[Mike Dwyer]

... the normal class for sergeants and feldwebel (what is this in english?)

Heiko

Usually, in English, at least when compared to the US Army, feldwebel falls into the catagory of a very senior sergeant. Most rank comparison charts I've seen compare fedlwebel to a sergeant-major. In the current US Army you have the following enlisted ranks:

Private (E-1 paygrade)

Private (E-2)

Private First Class (E-3)

Specialist or Corporal (E-4)

Sergeant (E-5)

Staff Sergeant (E-6)

Sergeant First Class (E-7)

Master Sergeant or First Sergeant (E-8)

Sergeant Major or Command Sergeant Major (E-9)

[Stogieman]

Well, the MVK3 on statute is extremely hard to find. Congratulations!!

[Guest Rick Research]

"MVK3XmKr" in "Rank-List-Speak." Normally that class was given as a SECOND award (previous holders of the MVK3X then getting the crown as a second of the same class) up to Unteroffizier. The Imperial rank of Sergeant (yes, the German title was "Sergeant") got an MVK3XmKr as a first "all in one" award. Vizefeldwebels, Vizewachtmeisters, and F?hnriche up got the MVK2Xs and the weird category of Feldwebelleutnants, Unter?rzte, "Deputy-Paymasters" and so on got MVK1Xs-- which is why that grade is so scarce.

That second bar is I hope in your sweaty paws (mine would be) and not "out there" now going to get more competition. It has been eons since I have seen a REAL peacetime M1913 MVK3. That's a weird bar too since there is no Luitpold Jubilee Medal (1905 or 1911/12) on there, which suggests that the Long Service is indeed correct as a Reserve/Landwehr one--

and making it all the MORE unusual that this non-active duty guy got a peacetime MVK3!!!

An unmessed with weird (Prussian EK ahead of his MVK3XmKr) and original-awards-still-on-there hook back bar-- amazing these days!!!

[notned]

Stogie, what do you mean by MVK3 on a statute?

Rick, thanks for the explanation on the Abbreviations, now i understand how to abbreviate the Swords and the crown.

What does the MVK2X look like?

Well hopefully this bar will be in my Sweaty hands, ( i will wash them first!) soon....just an aside...what you reckon its worth?

More knowledge and understanding gained! makes my day!

Cheers

Paul

[Dave Danner]

Rick, thanks for the explanation on the Abbreviations, now i understand how to abbreviate the Swords and the crown.

What does the MVK2X look like?

Cheers

Paul

Each of the grades of the MVK can be seen here: http://home.att.net/~david.danner/militaria/bavaria2.htm

[notned]

Thankyou Dave!

Excellent reference indeed.

Are you possibly going to add the service medals to the categories?

I think that this would be most helpful.

Best regards

Paul

Please gents....i need an estimation...negotiations are in place....and i want to get this bar!

But i am not that rich ( or crazy!) i can afford to buy everything in sight...so have to be choosy

and pick up certain ones ( the price is right) rather than everything that i like......

it would be nice...( wishful thinking...)

Many Thanks!

Edited November 29, 2005 by notned

[JensF.]

These are the wartime MVK classes and ranks they were awarded to:

MVK 1. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern: Feldwebelleutnante, mittlere

Beamte im Kriegsministerium

MVK 1. Klasse mit Schwertern: Feldwebelleutnante, mittlere Beamte und

z. B. Feldhilfs?rzte, Reichsbahninspektoren

MVK 2. Klasse mit Kr. und Schw.: Offiziersstellvertreter, Unterzahlmeister,

Musikmeister

MVK 2. Klasse mit Schwertern: Vizefeldwebel, Feldwebel, F?hnriche

MVK 3. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern: Unteroffiziere und Sergeanten

MVK 3. Klasse mit Schwertern: Mannschaften