Kriegsmarine Why is the HSF badge the only one it seems was produced by Schwerin in a concave format

[2dresq]

Greetings, I was curious why the HSF badge, especially the Schwerin Berlin model was the only one of the Kriegsmarine badges that appeared in a concaive design?

I wonder why this is?

Does any one have an explanation for this?

The RSS, the AS and other makers of the badge seemed to not follow this design feature but yet the Schwerin did?

Well, just wanted to ask that.

Thanks for looking and for your guesses/answers.

Regards,

2dresq

[Gordon Williamson]

Maybe I'm just not clear on the question, but all makers used a concave reverse on the Fleet Badge, including RSS. Foerster & Barth had a particularly deply indented reverse face. Never seen a genuine flat backed one, though some are more concaved than others.

Only the obverse deisgns were specified in the original foundation orders, so whether a badge ended up with a concave reverse like the Fleet Badge or a flat back like the Marine Artillery was most likely decided for technical reasons by the guys responsible to creating the tooling.

[Martin W]

My Foerster & Barth Fleet badge is concave.I have also owned a couple of FO Fleet badges that were "very" concave in design.I have never had an RS&S or a Mayer example in hand,but from the images i have looked at of these badges,they certainly appear concave to me.

Regards,Martin.

Edited July 12, 2009 by mwestley

[2dresq]

I am sorry, I was confusing.

Yes, the HSF badges have a concave appearance, I believe that the Schwerin examples have some of the more pronounced concave pattern.

I was curious in the molding and why the HSF badge for all makers seemed to be concave vs what Gordon stated, the Coastal Art. badges have a flat reverse side, as do most of the other KM badges, with the only exception being the S-boat first model for some makers.

As Gordon W. put it: "Only the obverse deisgns were specified in the original foundation orders, so whether a badge ended up with a concave reverse like the Fleet Badge or a flat back like the Marine Artillery was most likely decided for technical reasons by the guys responsible to creating the tooling."

I guess what also got me thinking, was that it would be very costly for a company, (Schwerin, FB, RK, RSS, etc.. To invest in this tooling and machine dye set because of a front and back plate to adjust their company's maker mark emboised in the badge. Just an observation, I am not sure how many people (rough estimate qualified for the HSF badge) I wouldn't have thought it profitable for so many companies to produce such a badge.

I was just curious on why and for what purpose that the badge was needed to be in a concave format vs a flat format... It probably was because of machinery design and

Sorry for my poor wording and for confusing everyone.

Thank you Martin W. and Gordon W. for your responses.

I greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,

2dresq

[Gordon Williamson]

If we look at the ships (Light Cruiser and above) whose crews would qualify for the fleet badge and then take the crew numbers, it gives us a start point of nearly 23,000.

Bismarck 2092

Tirpitz 2608

Gneisenau 1840

Scharnhorst 1840

Graf Spee 1150

Admiral Scheer 1150

Deutschland 951

Bl?cher 1600

Hipper 1600

Prinz Eugen 1600

Schlesien 802

Schleswig Holstein 802

Emden 683

K?nigsberg 850

Karlsruhe 850

K?ln 850

Leipzig 850

Nurnberg 850

22968

Factor in that crews rotated from other ships i.e. someone moving from a Destroyer then on to a Battleship then on to U-Boats etc then those who moved on had to be replaced. So, for a ship with say a crew of 850, then over a period of time the actual number of men sho served on that ship over the period of the war could easily be three times that number. Not all would complete the requisite number of missions for the badge of course, but I'd say the typical crew compliment would represent the base minimum number of sailors who served on that ship over time and qualified for the badge.

On the other hand some ships, like Graf Spee were sunk even before the Fleet Badge was introduced BUT, Graf Spee crew members are known to have received the Fleet Badge some time later as a commemorative piece.

So, I would say that the approximately 23,000 number would be a conservative figure. Factor in also the fact that some sailors would have had two or even three examples of the badge (I have seen this in donations to the U-Boat Archiv from former sailors who often donated the two or three examples of the badge that they owned).

So, we could easily be talking of around 50,000 badges. Quite a large number and certainly enough to warrant needing several manufacturing firms to keep up with demand.

[2dresq]

Thanks, that puts it in a whole new perspective.

Thanks for the detailed response.

Regards,

2dresq