Hungary Military Distinguished Service Medals: 2 Types

[Guest Rick Research]

Sorry guys-- I can't make all the Hungarian accent marks, which baffles searching functions if not named in English. So don't know if these are already exhaustively discussed in the back pages. Just got these at a Very Far Away Show--

On the left (thanks to Charles' translations ) Model 1954, with ribbon bar device (note exactly matching ribbon with same precise faded out dye failure lines) having M1957+ center shield (!???) and on the right the M1964--

These are numbers 613 and 615 in The Big Book.

[Guest Rick Research]

Reverses showing the different constructions:

[Guest Rick Research]

Closeups. I just love the absolutely transparent "watermelon red" on these.

[Guest Rick Research]

Reverse closeups showing the TWO rivets used to affix the parts at star and machine guns:

The red enamelled star on the M1954 is much more domed than the M1964.

This is probably a dumb question that is (Doh!) immediately obvious.. but could the ribbons have been switched on these two, obtained together? that sure would "explain" the M1957+ center on the ribbon bar device. I just don't want to swap them around if the styles/ages of ribbons ARE as they should be.

[hunyadi]

Rick - very nice pieces. There is an interesting sideline to the ribbons during the HUPR. The ribbon bar devices werea added after 1957 (1960's??- dont have the material right in front of me, but certainly post Revolution) Ribbons it seems were made in mass and not always "perfect". I think that many of these ribbons were factory errors that were masked up with extra red dye or the dye on the silk did not imbed properly giving the "brickwork" pattern. There is also clear evidence in the Big Book #600 where the ribbon was redyed from the Order of Merit of the Hungarian Peoples Republic (two parallel stripes of the national colors). My theory is that there were massive stocks of old ribbon or defected ribbon that was not discarded (the Hungarian Peolpes Republic ran their economy into the ground) but due to the nature of economic forces, they simply "made do" with what was available. In my opinion the M1954 model has the correct ribbon on as it has the black laquered gromet for the ribbon hook. This was a process that was seen on the eariler ribbons and many of the WW2 styles. The bare steel was a bit more of the latter 1950's and onward. The ribbon bar with the device was probably a "left over" section of ribbon that was formed and then thrown into a box - be darned if the ribbon matched - though who knows what the ribbon looked like after it was dyed - there is nearly 1/2 a century of fade going on here.

The other interesting side note which I have mentioned before is the use of old cases from the early 1950's being issued with plastic inserts which began to appear in the mid to late 1970's. This supports my opinion that the State Mint had allot of things just lying around for decades...

Thirdly - what I sent to you was the way that I aquired it.

[Guest Rick Research]

I'd be LOST without your translations of impenetrable Magyar and am REALLY really looking forward to your English language book.

Good to know about the devices being added later-- even if only to sit in a now vanished case. The ribbon bar is a precise match to the full sized trifold's weirdly striated ribbon material. I can line up the uneven faded stripes exactly, so they both came out of the same strip of ribbon at the same time.

You're to blame for this, of course. The civil version cased and ITS limpid, transparent "watermelon" enamel that I got from you... :love:

[Guest Rick Research]

Duncan Volume Two! Duncan Volume Two! Duncan Volume TWO!!!!!

Today I just got the 3rd (?) type but since Charles abandons us at 1957 with his outstanding Volume One, am unable to figure out WHAT Bodrogi-Molnar-Zeidler are telling us (in Magyar ) under their numbers 614 and 615!

Left to right--

1: The M1954-57 with crossed hammer and wheat stalk state seal in center from above.

2: The post 1957 medal above, with two rivets on back.

3) Today's 1957+ type with a flat reverse and only a single rivet, as well as a more "plated" look-- shinier, without the nice toning of the first two.

[Guest Rick Research]

On all three Medals the crossed Soviet sub-machineguns are separate pieces.

The M1954 is easy-- identifiable from the obverse, and only 1,725 awarded.

But B-M-Z under their numbers (as yet Un-Volume Two'd by Charles, hint hint)

614-- M1957, 14,259 awarded, and

615-- M1964, 4,248 awarded

what distinguishes a M1957 from a M1964? And from the M1964's far lesser numbers, when did that get phased out?

:beer:

[hunyadi]

Dont get too lost or confused. The main difference is Erdemerem = medal, decoration, etc... (#'s [612 as well] 613, 614) Erdemrend = is order. In 1964 they changed the item in question to the status of an "order" rather than the "medal" - this was primarily done as in 1964 they started to issue the "Service Medal" (for specific years of service) Perhaps what is most interesting about this new example you have shown is that it is not necessarily a 1964 piece - but rather an anomaly! This shows that there must have been some pieces that were made somewhere in the late 1950's where the backing for the PPsH's were reinforced but no rivet was used yet. This is very interesting as in all of my collection I have yet to find one that was made in such a manner! You have a very interesting variant from the 1957-1959 period! Somewhere around the 1980's I believe there was another variant which has a reverse such as this one I show below:

Edited November 9, 2009 by hunyadi

[Guest Rick Research]

Ahhhh! Sorry for the belated reply (you know why).

Volume TWO!!! Volume TWO!!! VOlume TWO!!!!