Attack On Us Troops At Seicheprey

[Chris Boonzaier]

Does anyone know which German troops took part in the raid on the US positions at Seicheprey 20-22 April?

On Regimental sites from the US It always says "Elite Prussian Guard stormtroopers" but that is not very helpful.

A regiment or division would help me out no end...

Thanks

Chris

[bob lembke]

Chris;

Con't know if this is a help. Other reports mention "regiments" from Lower Saxony. From the daily OHL communique:

Gro?es Hauptquartier, 21. April.

Westlicher Kriegsschauplatz:

Heeresgruppen Kronprinz Rupprecht und Deutscher Kronprinz:

An den Schlachtfronten f?hrten beiderseitige Erkundungen zu heftigen Infanteriegefechten. Bei La Bass?e, Lens und Albert lebhafter Feuerkampf. Auch zwischen Avre und Oise war die Artilleriet?tigkeit vielfach rege.

Heeresgruppen Gallwitz und Herzog Albrecht:

Zwischen Maas und Mosel griffen nieders?chsische Bataillone Amerikaner in ihren Stellungen bei Seicheprey an. Sie erst?rmten den Ort und stie?en bis zu 2 Kilometer Tiefe in die feindlichen Linien vor. Schw?chere Gegensto?e des Feindes wurden abgewiesen, st?rkere Angriffsversuche durch Niederhalten im Anmarsch und in der Bereitstellung erkannter Truppen vereitelt. In der Nacht wurden unsere Sturmtruppen nach Zerst?rung der feindlichen Anlagen in ihre Ausgangslinien zur?ckgenommen. Die blutigen Verluste der Amerikaner sind au?erordentlich. 183 Amerikaner, darunter 5 Offiziere, wurden gefangen, 25 Maschinengewehre erbeutet. Nordwestlich von Morville (?stlich von Pont ? Mousson) machten wir im Vorfeldkampf mit Franzosen Gefangene.

Rittmeister Freiherr v. Richthofen errang an der Spitze der bew?hrten Jagdstaffel 11 seinen 79. und 80., Leutnant Buckler seinen 31. Luftsieg.

Osten (Ukraine):

Nach ?berwinden feindlichen Widerstandes bei Perekop und Kart Kasak haben sich unsere Truppen den Weg in die Krim ge?ffnet.

Mazedonische Front:

Rege T?tigkeit des Feindes westlich vom Dojransee und in der Struma-Ebene.

Der Erste Generalquartiermeister

Ludendorff.

I think that the communique had a good reputation for not faking stuff; they imparted their "spin" by selectively mentioning or leaving out events, not lying thru their teeth.

Bob Lembke

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi

thats the action...

but which were the units?

Best

Chris

[bob lembke]

Hi

thats the action...

but which were the units?

Best

Chris

The daily communique from the OHL never, I think, ever mentioned specific units. The book Schlachten und Gefechte from the Grosse Generalstabes, 1919, would probably give it, but my copy has sunk into my sea of paper and I haven't seen it for about a year.

These communiques for the entire war can be found on the internet.

Bob

[Chris Liontas]

http://bl-libg-doghill.ads.iu.edu/gpd-web/historical/acchs/acchs20.pdf

This lists the French stating the 14th Stosstruppe was training before the raid on Allied (American) lines. I am looking for all info on the Yankee Division to see if they list the enemy combatants opposite them during the raid. No luck so far, but I will keep checking

[bob lembke]

Chris;

Your link does not seem to work, unfortunately.

A Stosstrupp? Stosstruppe? Sorry to be a pedant. A Trupp should only be about 10 men. Sturm=Bataillon Nr. 14? Stosstruppen?

Bob

[Les]

Chris,

A memo written by a gas officer from the US 26ID after the war mentions the "78th Reserve Division" being involved in the attack at Seicheprey. I have a pdf file that I can send you, which mentions the Ia op order written on 18 April 1918, and a few other details you might find interesting.

A short footnote mentions "Order Ia 929" of the 78th Reserve Divisions, subject "Cherry Blossom" (Kirschblűte), approx 40 page war files extracts of the 78th R.D., Box 202.

The paper goes on to mention on page 16, that the week before the attack, the French reported the presence of the "14th Stosstruppe" at Heudicourt (sp?) training for a raid, which was confirmed by "artillery intelligence."

The 78th RD artillery had 55 batteries, fired over 20,000 rounds (77mm, 105mm, 150mm, and 10cm yellow cross shells aka mustard, on the front from Xivray to Remieres Wood east. Most of it was concentrated on the 32 French and American batteries the Germans located back of the front (near Beaumont, Raubicourt (sp?), Bois de la Hazelle, Voisgoine, and Lironville. Some of the gas was fired during and after the raid, to maintain the gas screen, along with 42,000 HE rounds, and 6,000 t.m. rounds.

A few excerpts from the report:

26th Div officers estimated roughly 4-5000 gas shells (all sizes) and a small amount of HE mixed in with the gas (including Blue Cross rounds).

page 12:.... The raiders left their trenches opp Seicheprey and rushed Sybille Trench in front of the town, enveloped and occupied it, destroying all dugouts and defenses, then withdrew. They captured most of Co. C, ten heavy and fifteen light m.g.s and destroyed 10 more in circa one hour.

The next four pages discuss US responses but no specific mention of German units after the initial attack started.

Any of this useful for what you need or want?

Les

[Les]

Chris,

Additional information on the 78th R.D. for the spring of 1918:

78.Reserve-Infanterie-Brigade

Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 258

Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 259

Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 260

2.Eskadron/Husaren-Regiment Nr. 16

Artillerie-Kommandeur 78

Reserve-Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 62

Pionier-Bataillon Nr. 378

Reserve-Pionier-Kompanie Nr. 79

Reserve-Pionier-Kompanie Nr. 80

Minenwerfer-Kompanie Nr. 278

Divisions-Nachrichten-Kommandeur 478

Les

Edited July 30, 2009 by Les

[Ulsterman]

Les has sussed it.

Oddly the "German Divisions" book doesn't mention the 'battle', although it was a big deal at the time.

I have a lot of material on the 26th-it being a "home town" unit.

Some Connecticut men reported it as an 'attack by the Prussian guards' but that was vets' puffery.

see here:

http://www.1914-18.info/erster-weltkrieg.php?u=405&info=78.Reserve-Division&start=60

There's some great WW1 film of the 26th in February/March @ 6 weeks before their bloody nose.

-small world huh given LtdR. Webers' diary on your site.

see also the Osprey book on the AEF campaigns in 1918, pp.30 ("259 RIR")

The source above says that the attack was led by the Sturmbattalion (who infiltrated a la Szorzeny beforehand) supported by the 259th and two companies of the 258th, with the 260th in flanking support.

Interestingly, in snouting round all the different books, it really gives one a feel for how sources were used and altered and slight changes became bigger ones over time.

[Chris Liontas]

Chris;

Your link does not seem to work, unfortunately.

A Stosstrupp? Stosstruppe? Sorry to be a pedant. A Trupp should only be about 10 men. Sturm=Bataillon Nr. 14? Stosstruppen?

Bob

Hi Bob!

Sorry about that! My spelling is my worst fault.

What Les wrote was what I was trying to link to. Sorry about the confusion!

[Chris Boonzaier]

-small world huh given LtdR. Webers' diary on your site.

Indeed... but he was long dead by then... :-(

Having said that... I have a 14th Sturmbattalion EK doc and 2 other EK docs to the division... awarded in the month BEFORE the attack...

[kronprinz]

Hallo,

20 April 1918 ist Gefecht von Seycheprey mit 78 Reserve Division und Stoßtruppen von Sturmbataillon 14 (Hauptmann von Putkammer).

Grüße von Lothringen

PH

[Ulsterman]

I was talking to an old guy this morning whose father won the Croix D' Guerre at this hamlet. According to him, the "last stand" made great newspaper reading, but in fact the Yankee Division got whomped. Pershing was considering firing the Divisional commander and Brigade commanders but the French Brigadier made a big deal of the raid and awarded over a hundred Croix D' Guerres for the action-which made formal public discipline impossible. So afterwards Pershing tightened the U.S. Troops' abilities to be awarded foreign medals.