Northumberland Fusiliers

[Venusinaglass]

Hello, I am very new to this so I apologise for any mistakes I make along the way. I am looking for some help/support/advice/information on the Northumberland Fusiliers. My Great Grandfather Samuel Proud (22/214) served, and gave his life, on the 26th August 1917. He is buried at Hargicourt, France and we have planned a trip there at the end of August, however the CWGC has him recorded as T Proud. I have a copy of his birth certificate and medal card and both clearly state his name as Samuel. If the headstone is incorrect (I sincerely hope it is not) then how does one go about having it corrected ? My other query is how could I find out some more information about the Battalion my Great Grandfather served in, the battle he died in, conditions served in, enlistment etc. Thankyou for taking the time to read this post and in anticipation of any help or information you are able to give me. Louise

[coldstream]

Louise,

I would start with the website The Long Long Trail, here's a link hope it works.My link

[Venusinaglass]

Louise,

I would start with the website The Long Long Trail, here's a link hope it works.My link

Thankyou very much. I will begin there.

[leigh kitchen]

Soldiers Died" shows a 22/214 Private Samuel Proud,initials S, 22nd Battalion (Tyneside Scottish) Northumberland Fusiliers, born Denton Burn, Northumberland, enlisted Newcastle - on - Tyne, died 26/8/17, Killed in Action France & Flanders.

I've checked "Ancestyry" for the Medal Index Cards re Samuel & re "T" Proud with negative result so far, have'nt checked Servce Records yet.

There will be loads of info out there on the battalion, & Graham no doubt will have something to add when he's next logged on.

[leigh kitchen]

Looks like he does, however, have a Medal Index Card on National Archives:

Image details

Description Medal card of Proud, Samuel

Corps Regiment No Rank

Northumberland Fusiliers 22/214 Private

Date 1914-1920

Catalogue reference WO 372/16

Dept Records created or inherited by the War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies

Series War Office: Service Medal and Award Rolls Index, First World War

Piece Pickering S R - Ridley C

Image contains 1 medal card of many for this collection

Number of image files: 1

Image Reference Format and Version Part Number Size (KB) Number of Pages Price (£)

102862 / 16745 PDF 1.2 1 252 1 2.00

Total Price (£) 2.00

Here's the link to the page concerned:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=4928515&queryType=1&resultcount=1

[leigh kitchen]

Aged 8 years at the 1901 Census? - there's such a Samuel Proud residing in Stone Row, Denton ??????, East Denton, but you may know that already.

1901 England Census

about Samuel Proud

Name: Samuel Proud

Age: 8

Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893

Relation: Son

Father's Name: William

Mother's Name: Margaret

Gender: Male

Where born: East Denton, Northumberland, England

Civil parish: East Denton

Ecclesiastical parish: Sugley Holy Saviour

County/Island: Northumberland

Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Castleward

Sub-registration district: Newburn

ED, institution, or vessel: 8

Neighbors: View others on page

Household schedule number: 69

Household Members: Name Age

William Proud 64

Margaret Proud 52

Joseph Proud 19

Thomas Proud 15

Margaret J Proud 11

Samuel Proud 8

Edited August 11, 2009 by leigh kitchen

[Venusinaglass]

Aged 8 years at the 1901 Census? - there's such a Samuel Proud residing in Stone Row, Denton ??????, East Denton, but you may know that already.

1901 England Census

about Samuel Proud

Name: Samuel Proud

Age: 8

Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893

Relation: Son

Father's Name: William

Mother's Name: Margaret

Gender: Male

Where born: East Denton, Northumberland, England

Civil parish: East Denton

Ecclesiastical parish: Sugley Holy Saviour

County/Island: Northumberland

Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Castleward

Sub-registration district: Newburn

ED, institution, or vessel: 8

Neighbors: View others on page

Household schedule number: 69

Household Members: Name Age

William Proud 64

Margaret Proud 52

Joseph Proud 19

Thomas Proud 15

Margaret J Proud 11

Samuel Proud 8

Hi Leigh,

Thankyou for all of the information, I have a copy of his medal card, birth certificate etc which is how I knew he was recorded incorrectly on the CWGC site, I have since been in email contact with someone who has visited Hargicourt cemetery and has transcribed the headstones and he is incorrectly named as T.Proud. I am visiting the cemetery this week so will photograph it then contact CWGC to see how the situation can be recitified. I have been surfing to try and find out more about the Fusiliers but I'm not very good at it so haven't found out too much so far - what I have found confused me - they started off talking about the 22nd battalion and then went on to talk about the 34th division so I am going to have to have sit down and learn a bit more about army terminology etc. What I would really like to know is what my G.Grandfather was doing when he died, ie what battle he was in.....

Thankyou again for taking the time to reply.

Kind regards,

Louise

[leigh kitchen]

22nd Bn NF were in 102 Brigade of the 34th Division of XVII Corps, 3rd Army, on 26/8/1917,I think it was fighting at Arras.

On 26/8/1917, the 11th Suffolks which were part of 101 Bde of the division won a VC at Hargicourt.

Edited August 14, 2009 by leigh kitchen

[Venusinaglass]

22nd Bn NF were in 102 Brigade of the 34th Division of XVII Corps, 3rd Army, on 26/8/1917,I think it was fighting at Arras.

On 26/8/1917, the 11th Suffolks which were part of 101 Bde of the division won a VC at Hargicourt.

Hi Leigh,

Thanks again for your time and information - please could you tell me what "34th Division of XVII Corps, 3rd Army" means ? I know this probably sounds dim! Thanks again, Louise

[Graham Stewart]

Hi Leigh,

Thanks again for your time and information - please could you tell me what "34th Division of XVII Corps, 3rd Army" means ? I know this probably sounds dim! Thanks again, Louise

Hi Louise,

Basically it's how the British Army was organised for combat and at it's higher level an Army, within that you have a number of Corps and within that you have a number of Divisions. The higher formation(Army) never changed but the Corps and Divisions could be moved around.

Also there are two books which deal specifically with the Tyneside Scottish during the Great War and these are;-

"The Story of the Tyneside Scottish" by Brig-Gen Trevor Ternan.

"Tyneside Scottish" by Graham Stewart & John Sheen.

You'll probably be able to get them to read through your local library.

Newcastle City Library also hold microfiche copies of the Battalion War Diaries, which are available for viewing.

[Venusinaglass]

Hi Louise,

Basically it's how the British Army was organised for combat and at it's higher level an Army, within that you have a number of Corps and within that you have a number of Divisions. The higher formation(Army) never changed but the Corps and Divisions could be moved around.

Also there are two books which deal specifically with the Tyneside Scottish during the Great War and these are;-

"The Story of the Tyneside Scottish" by Brig-Gen Trevor Ternan.

"Tyneside Scottish" by Graham Stewart & John Sheen.

You'll probably be able to get them to read through your local library.

Newcastle City Library also hold microfiche copies of the Battalion War Diaries, which are available for viewing.

Thanks Graham, sorry for the delay in replying, I have just got back from France. I have ordered a copy of "Tyneside Scottish" from Amazon. I had not realised that the library had a copy of the regimental diaries so at some point I will make a trip there to see what information I can get. Louise

[Graham Stewart]

No problem Louise. Unfortunately I no longer live in the UK or I could have done a bit more to help. I believe Newcastle Central Library has had a major refurbishment carried out, so I'm not sure if all of the local history stuff is still on the top floor. I used to spend hours in there copying the battalion war diaries from the microfiche. This how me and John Sheen were able to put the book together on the Tyneside Scottish.