Belgium WW1 Fire Cross

[Tim B]

Hi Rob,

Well, I think I will eventually run out of different variations.

When we consider that until just recently, there were a limited number of known variations; 1 or 2 Type 1, 2 or 3 Type 2, and 1 Type 3, I think the most common ones have probably been shown from collections already or we would be seeing more coming forward here.

Here's an interesting item; based on Hendrik's site, I think its a cufflink. I have another one of different style coming in the last batch. This one appears to be marked De Graff on the inside.

Tim

Edited September 28, 2009 by Tim B

[Tim B]

Thought I would add a couple close-up PICS of the cufflink and update the thread a bit.

I received a few more examples and am still waiting on two more plus need to find another one similar to the one posted by Rob a few posts back. Are there any more variations out there? Let's see them if they exist!

So far I still only see one Type 3; are there more?

Tim

Here's that cufflink again:

[Tim B]

.

[Tim B]

Can't quite make this one out? Something that says this piece is cast by...? co.depose

Edited October 5, 2009 by Tim B

[Tim B]

Well, I finally received my last two Fire Cross and will post good close-up comparisons soon. I still think the one Rob shows above is yet another variation in addition to all the ones I have.

Here's another cufflink along with the first one shown earlier and one for a Military Cross. This second Fire Cross cufflink is unmarked. The Military Cross is a well marked example by Degreef.

Tim

PS: Oh, BTW, I know a person in Belgium that is offering a nice Fire Cross Grave Marker.

The price is 65 Euros, plus shipping. He quoted me 26 Euros shipping to the US (it's heavy). I don't collect these, so if anyone is interested, please contact me and I can put you in contact with the seller. He's a great guy and also helps find other items (medals, etc.) if you are looking for something and can't find it. Let me know.

Tim

[Gldank]

I never thought of these things a cuff links. I always thought they were lapel pins. Here are a few of mine. Many different types and many makers. I have several grave markers if anybody needs pictures of these too. I live in the country away from many collectors so I do not often get to show others my collection.

[Gldank]

Pin backs

[Tim B]

Hi James,

Yes, not 100% sure, only going off Hendrik's site where he references them as cufflinks in the section on Fire Cross. I suppose some of them could be lapel devices, though I also see this style which would attach directly to the lapel.

Tim

[Gldank]

Yes, I agree as I have over 1000 of these wrap around lapel pins.

Hi James,

Yes, not 100% sure, only going off Hendrik's site where he references them as cufflinks in the section on Fire Cross. I suppose some of them could be lapel devices, though I also see this style which would attach directly to the lapel.

Tim

[Tim B]

Here's an interesting observation!

I just noticed this one for sale on ebay; note this Type 1 has the same corner flare type die faults as that of the Type 2 deemed to be a restrike. So, does that mean this is also a restrike (of a Type 1)?

Tim

Edited November 11, 2009 by Tim B

[dcollect]

and here my latest find , payed a lot of money for it but it's the first in 20 years of collecting i have seen

a maker variation with a very strange cannon

Edited May 16, 2010 by dcollect

[Tim B]

Now, that is different!

Never seen one like it.

Tim :beer:

[Tim B]

I really need to get back on these medals now that I have the ones I had been waiting on when first adding to the thread. I believe I have found a pattern in the restrikes for the other types as well.

On to your (dcollect) piece. At first I thought, when looking at the helmet lion, maybe this one was just a poor strike, but you can see the cannon is deliberately short as the sun's rays extend down fully to the cannon. Also, note the missing spoke in the wheel.

Very different and the only one I have seen like this. That makes two now that are different from the "vast" majority; yours and the one Rob posted. All the rest appear to be pretty common IMO.

Congrats, a great piece. Hope you didn't go broke on it though?

Tim

[Gldank]

I really need to get back on these medals now that I have the ones I had been waiting on when first adding to the thread. I believe I have found a pattern in the restrikes for the other types as well.

On to your (dcollect) piece. At first I thought, when looking at the helmet lion, maybe this one was just a poor strike, but you can see the cannon is deliberately short as the sun's rays extend down fully to the cannon. Also, note the missing spoke in the wheel.

Very different and the only one I have seen like this. That makes two now that are different from the "vast" majority; yours and the one Rob posted. All the rest appear to be pretty common IMO.

Congrats, a great piece. Hope you didn't go broke on it though?

Tim

[Gldank]

Very nice! I want one!

[dcollect]

i payed 25 euro for this strange example with the short cannon . not so much but a lot of money for a fire cross in belgium .

[Gldank]

I would pay that price. I think you got a deal for a rare sample. Nice!

i payed 25 euro for this strange example with the short cannon . not so much but a lot of money for a fire cross in belgium .

Edited May 18, 2010 by Gldank

[Tim B]

i payed 25 euro for this strange example with the short cannon . not so much but a lot of money for a fire cross in belgium .

Hello,

Yes, I understand that prices are considerably cheaper if you can buy over there but, 25 Euro is about average for what the UK dealers are charging online for one of these if you were to buy from one of those guys. Ebay, or knowing someone in Europe is the best (and cheapest) alternative IMO. Still, I would have seriously considered paying that amount as well for, what may currently be...a one of a kind example!

I meant to ask last night; can we see the reverse??

Thank you for posting it!!

Tim

[Tim B]

Hi James!

Yes, I know I need to get off my butt and get it done. Maybe later today I can post some more close-up images of the different FC examples.

As far as the "Cuff links"; I think you may be more correct in that these were probably also used as buttonhole lapels pins. Was it Hendrik that had "cuff links" on his site originally?? Anyway, I have acquired more since last year.

Tim

[Tim B]

All directly relating to the Croix de Feu; the FNC veteran pin interestly has the same style shape as the others (fire cross). Any comments on that one?

Tim :cheers:

Edited May 18, 2010 by Tim B

[Gldank]

I guess they could be used as cuff links but they were not designed to be. Nice collection of different styles.

All directly relating to the Croix de Feu; the FNC veteran pin interestly has the same style shape as the others (fire cross). Any comments on that one?

Tim

[Tim B]

Well, just when you think you have things figured out, something like this atypical Fire Cross comes up and reminds you that you know very little.

Bjorn,

Any chance on getting a reverse shot of this piece?

Tim

[Tim B]

I've seen a few versions with those corner die flaws now and on different types. I would like to confirm with Bjorn before proceeding on that issue. For now, here are some better closeups of the various versions I have so far. Each one is slightly different from the others which lead me to believe we have several maker's of the 1st and 2nd style medals.

Tim

Again, this type 1 has the odd bottom on the front. There is no cross bar on this one. If you count the small bars down the left & right sides; =21

Edited May 20, 2010 by Tim B

[Tim B]

Another type 1. This one has 20 bars on the left and 22 on the right.

Notice the differences in the landscape between these on the front and crowns and lettering on the back.

[Tim B]

And yet, another type 1 with 21 & 22 bars respectively. You can also see minor details differences in the bayonet and the width of the helmet flange near the bayonet on these.