1870 Medal Bar

[Paul C]

While I am alomost sure of the answer to this I want to double check in case I am missing something, no way to ID the owner of this bars since it was a EM, correct?

[Paul C]

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[Ulsterman]

Is that an early Austrian large gold bravery medal?

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello Paul:

You are correct, there would be no way to be 100% certain of the recipient of these medals without supporting documents, photos, etc. He was undoubtedly awarded the MEI and MEII during the 1864 and/or 1866 campaigns. Is the MEI marked?

The Austrian bravery medal looks to be silver to me, but it could be gilded (it is difficult to determine with the lighting).

Best regards,

"SPM"

[Guest Rick Research]

:Cat-Scratch: The large Silver Austrian Bravery Medal would have had to be for 1864. If there is a list that should narrow things down instantly.

I have never in my life seen a statute Crown Order ahead of the "Iron Cross" ribbons, but the bar looks period otherwise so perhaps this guy figured his one and only Order preceded "not-Itron Crosses." It didn't, but hey.

The China medal in steel... this seems to be the bar of an ex career NCO (long service brooch stil worn as one and not the pendant form on a medal bar or the uglier brooch mounted on an "empty" ribboN) who'd strugfgled his way up to a KO4 in Civil Service afterwards....

That suggests still on the army payroll in 1902 and MIGHT well be worth checking in those jam-and-socks Beamten at the end of the annual Rank Lists for somebody still in the military as that sort of quartermaster Beamter.

Otherwise-- it's for the Orders Almanac!!!!

The combination, with the luck of finding him as an active duty Army Beamter or in the Orders Almanac, is not impossible.

Check the final pages of the 1902 before the reservists.

[Guest Rick Research]

OK, just checked out the various Garnison-Verwaltungs types in 1898 and 1902 and he's not ther. But from vvery close matches like GarnVerw Direktor Seichter, that is the sort of person to look for-- some "invisible" 60 year old Oberleutnant level military official.

Match up one of the roughly 750 MEZ1 winners of 1854 and 1866 (and all the cadets who later became officers can be eliminated in the first round), match that up with an ÖsTM1...

not anything I have the resources for (Orders Lists etc) and hideously time consuming-- but we've had worse odds.

[Guest Rick Research]

Results in real time, from the Great Collective Work. Willi Geile's index of rare awards in the 1908/09 Orders Almanac came up with six matches of MEZ1 and ÖsTM1. All six had other awards.

One Oh So Close But No Cigar recipient was:

Alas, he had BOTH the Alsen and Düppel Crosses, while the medal bar's holder had only the 1. That is not to suggest that there were no others-- the Orders Almanac was a vanity listing. ALL of them will have to be checked-- but this is a good start for the sort of person likely.

Stationmaster Lenkmann does not show a steel China, but as those of us used to long labours in the Almanac know, steels were often omitted. But a stationmaster is precisely the sort of fellow who got one, waving goodbye to the packed up troops.

6 of about 750 accounted for. :catjava:

[Paul C]

All, thank you very much.