Canada Royal Canadian Mounted Police badges and uniforms

[Paul L Murphy]

Next the handcuff case.

[Paul L Murphy]

And the ammunition case.

I have two more examples of this type of belt combination in the collection but will not post photos since it duplicates what you see here.

[Paul L Murphy]

Next we move to the type of equipment used on the black Sam Browne operational belt with the service uniform that was introduced in 1990. The post 1996 holster and ammunition case has already been posted. Here is an example of the pre 1996 holster for a revolver.

Here is the pre 1996 ammunition case for revolver speed loaders.

Edited March 6, 2010 by Paul L Murphy

[Paul L Murphy]

Here is the left handed version of the pre 1996 holster.

[Paul L Murphy]

Here is the pouch used on the operational belt for carrying a small Maglite torch.

[Paul L Murphy]

And finally, here is the operational belt. The buckle mechanism is missing part of the upper buckle fitment but I will keep my eyes out to pick one up.

[Paul L Murphy]

Apart from some duplicated items, that is everything in the collection. I will continue to modify the posts as and when new information comes to light about some of these items. I am reading through some of the books about the RCMP which I bought with the collection so they may yield some more detailed information.

If anyone wants to give me an eductated guess on the value of all this then please do ! I swapped items for it so, while I know what I swapped and its calue, I have only a very general idea of the individual value of these items since many of them are new to me.

Needless to say if there are more RCMP items out there that anyone would like to add them please do so.

Enjoy :cheers:

[Michael Johnson]

A beautiful collection! I remember back in 1981 Peter Monahan and I stopped for breakfast in Regina. Shortly afterwards about a dozen Mounties came in, tossed their caps on the coat rack, and went to a table further into the restaurant. I counted about three different patterns of cap badge, and only the realization that Peter and I would be unlikely to outrun the Mounties kept me from starting my own collection. :cheers:

[Mervyn Mitton]

Paul - this is one of the best private collections that I have seen for any Force - and in such excellent condition. I was pleased that Craig 'pinned' it for future reference. Looking at the more recent posts I was surprised that the black holsters, belts and fitted cases had such an elaborate 'tooled' design on them . For a para-military police I thought it looked out of place when compared to the more usual plain brown polished leather.

Value wise, it is very difficult to be accurate. There are just so many items - and of varying importance. However, taking the Commissioner's uniform and accoutrements as an example - I would think this would command , at an English auction , somewhere between £4000 and £5000. Some 30 years ago a number of London Commissioners' full dress uniforms started coming on the market and didn't fetch particularly high prices - however, times have changed and people are more aware of the importance of historical collections. Probably - and I have not looked at valuing each item separately, I would think a figure of £15/20,000 ( US$23/30,000) would be possible. I would be happy to give you an insurance valuation to that effect.

The other distinction which you will have - if you keep everything together, and don't sell - is that it will take your name. I would suggest a small book on the collection - few people know much about the 'Mounties' apart from the uniform and that they always ''Get their man...''

and that was the original North West Mounted Police from 1873.

[Gordon Craig]

Paul,

I second Mervyn's comments on writing a book on the RCMP based on your collection. As I mentioned earlier in this post, I see relativiely little RCMP things for sale in Canada. It would certainly boost interest in this area. It wouldn't do the force any harm either. They are under a lot of pressure here in Canada due to some unfortunate events over the past few years. So much so that a civilian has now been put in charge of the RCMP. Something unheard of previously.

Regards,

Gordon

[Paul L Murphy]

Yikes ! The value is at least double what I had expected so I am pleased in that regard. I think a large part of the value is the fact that it is such a good collection so my intention is to add to it whenever I can.

There are already a few good books about RCMP uniforms so I am not sure if there is room for another one. Also I am conscious that there are gaps in the collection which would need to be filled in order to make it comprehensive. Besides, I need to get that book about Japanese orders and medals finished first !

:cheers:

[Paul L Murphy]

A couple of other additions to the collection. Here is a closeup of the Kings Crown tunic button that was worn until 1953. This is made by Gaunt with an address in Montreal.

This is a large metal version of the cap badge (about three times the size of the normal cap badge) which is designed to be stuck on a presentation piece such as a trophy.

I have also purchased a small collection of RCMP related lapel pins, which seems to be a large collecting field in its own right. Rather than mix them in with this thread I will start a new topic on that subject once I have sorted them out.

[Paul L Murphy]

Here is another badge I have been able to find that I was missing. This is a 1954 pattern shoulder patch.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Interesting, Paul. I never knew Gaunt manufactured outside Britain ? Perhaps they didn't and it was only a branch to take orders ?

[Gordon Craig]

Mervyn,

I beleive that the Gaunt firm, which operated out of Montreal for many years, was separate from Gaunt of England. I'll confirm that when I talk to some collegues at the Bytown Militaria Club's meeting on April 7. Below is a page from the firm of William Scully indicating they had bought Gaunt in 1984.

Regards,

Gordon

http://www.williamscully.ca/gallery2/v/Scully-Canadian-Regalia/scully_wsl_1022.jpg.html

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hi - Gordon. Will be helpful for badge identification to have confirmation on the Canadian Gaunt's.

You mention Bytown - I think that is just outside of Ontario ? This is a little off topic - but does concern early Canadian Policing. There used to be a very large British Army Camp at Bytown - and the only known heraldically painted truncheon in Canada is for this camp. I heard about it when my book was being researched and I understand it is in the Ontario Museum. I personally think the truncheon would have been for the constable or, beadle in charge of the camp's civilian population.

Would you be kind enough to ask your fellow members if they have any knowledge of this truncheon - or, if any of them have contacts in the Museum. I would be able to identify it if I could see a picture.

Best wishes Mervyn

[Gordon Craig]

Mervyn,

Bytown was the original name of Ottawa. Canada's capital city. It was named after a Colonel By. A military engineer in the British army. If the truncheon still exists in Ottawa it could be in one of two museums. 1-The Bytown Museum which is at the Ottawa River end of the Rideau Canal in downtown Ottawa; or 2-at the Military Museum in Ottawa. I don't think there are any police collectors in the club but many of the members have close ties to the Military Museum and may be able to help. I can visit the Bytown Museum myself and contact the people there. Here is a lik to the Bytown Museum. http://www.bytownmuseum.com/EN/main.html Here is another link to a small WIKI article on Bytown. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bytown It may be of interest to you to click on the hyperlink for Ottawa which gives an expanded historical over view of Bytown and it's early settlement.

The other possibility, since you mentioned the "Ontario Museum", would be the Royal Ontario Museum (ROM) in Toronto. If I draw a blank in Ottawa I'll contact the ROM and see if they can shed any light on the truncheon.

Regards,

Gordon

[Mervyn Mitton]

Sorry, Gordon. If Bytown was based on the outskirts of Ottawa - then that is where the truncheon is supposed to be. I heard about it some 25/30 years ago when I was researching the book - but like so many things in life, never got around to following it up. I have the only known (at this stage) tipstaff for Canada - North West Mounted Police Supt. issued in 1875 - to be able to show pictures of the only known truncheon and tipstaff, would be important historically. I shall look forward to seeing if you are succesful.

Mervyn

[Greg D.]

Hello, my Name is Greg and I am a Mounted Police Collector for about nine years now. I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts, and felt wanted to

[Greg D.]

Hello, my Name is Greg and I am a Mounted Police Collector for about nine years now. I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts, and felt wanted to say that I am impressed by Paul's recent aquisitions. I see that he asked about the NWMP badge as to it's authenticity, and I can tell you for certain that it is a re-strike. The Original badges were die struck, not cast.

As for the many comments about research, the RCMP Museum (The RCMP Heritage Center) in Regina, Saskatchewan is an excellent resource, and can be found online. Also, Dr. Boulton's book Uniforms of the Canadian Mounted Police is the best resource there is for identification of uniform items. Don Klancher's book Insignia of the Canadian Mounted Police is also a very good resource, as well as his other books.

I am glad I found this post, and will post some photos soon of my treasures.

I would also be interested in hearing from anyone looking for items to trade.

Greg

Edited April 13, 2010 by Greg D.

[Paul L Murphy]

Hi Greg,

Many thanks for your kind comments. As a total newcomer to the world of RCMP collectibles I would be very interested in your views on the items I have shown and any further details that you can give about them. I am also very interested in seeing your treasures as well.

:cheers:

[Greg D.]

Paul,

I must say I am envious of how you acquired such a large collection in one transaction - I have working at mine one piece at a time for years.

I am partial to the NWMP and RNWMP items, but can't resist picking up KC RCMP items, and some QC stuff.

I tried to attahc photos, but they are too large - I will have to figure out how to decrease their size.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Greg - just a note to say - Welcome to GMIC. Paul's post has added greatly to our understanding of the uniforms and equipment of the RCMP - now, we are all looking forward to seeing what you are going to add. I always have found it strange, that the World perception of the of the Force really only extends to a red uniform and a pointed stetson. Do you have anything from the NWMP ? Are you an ex Mountie ?

[Paul L Murphy]

Here are some of the photos that Greg sent me to post. I will let him add the comments regarding them. Some nice items here indeed.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Paul L Murphy

[Paul L Murphy]