Bronze Lance Points

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello everyone,

Many years ago I purchased one of these lance point at a gun show then nearly a year later I purchased another from a junk dealer at what was misleadingly advertised as an Antiques Show. The two were purched here in Ontario, one near Hamilton the other in London, Ontario. They are not exactly the same though close enough that I believe them to have shared the same manufacturer. The longest one is 10 inches and the shorter being 9 3/4 inches. The blade measured from the intersecting planes, on the blade above the socket, is 1 1/2 inches wide with one being 4 3/4 inches and the shorter being 4 1/4. The difference in the length between the two being mostly in the blade. The socket takes a 7/8 inch tapered shaft and as may be seen in the photos I had to take the 1 inch dowel down a bit in order to fit the socket.

They are held onto the wooden shaft by means of two screws, one above the other so that the screws do not meet. The position of the holes is identical in both sockets. No markings can be found on the lance heads. I've been looking at every lance tip I can find in books, on the internet and in museums but have never found their like. They do not appear to be flag staff tips and are quite ruggedly made.

Any suggestions as to their identification is most appreciated. I've had these for probably 40 years...oh, how time passes so quickly.

Thanks for any help you might be able to extend to me.

Regards

Brian

[Brian Wolfe]

This is a view of both profiles. Since they are almost identical the photo is a good representation of both lance heads.

The bronze is blackend as shown in the photo. The whole photo has a gold hew due to the lighting.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Brian - no question, they are lance heads and would have tipped the 9 feet lances. These were usually of Ash wood - with the 17th Lancers using a large male bamboo shaft. The opposite end had a metal shoe running up the shaft and I have often found this part has the identification marks - they are also often repeated on the wood.

Who was based in Ontario that might have carried lances ?

Many of the British Light Cavalry Regt's. were made into Lancer Regiments after 1815. During the Battle of Waterloo our heavy cavalry charged the French guns - they were fairly succesful, but during the retreat to our lines, the French (actually Polish lancers taken into French service) Lancers charged. The Royal Scots Greys took the brunt of the attack and with the length of the lances - many were killed with lances in their backs - incl. the commanding Colonel. This is why our Lancer Regt's have short histories compared with other units.

Probably the most famous charge - with Lances - after the Charge at Balaclava , has to be the 21 st. Lancers at the battle of Omdurman in the Sudan - the one Churchill took part-in.

[Brian Wolfe]

I'm not sure as to which, if any, regiments in Ontario were lancers. We have a couple of members who would probably know this, Peter and Michael come to mind straight off. Any photographs or detailed drawings I've seen seems to suggest that lance points were longer, more dagger-shaped. It's too bad there are no markings as that would clear everything up in a second.

Regards

Brian

[peter monahan]

Brian

Saw your post yesterday but got hauled away from the computer for duty with Dad's Taxi & Small Loan Co.

There were no official lancers units in the Canadian Army as far as I know but many of the Militia regiments were enamoured of the pomp and glory of the British light cavalry - look, for example at the beutiful silvered helmets worn by the 10th Brant Dragoons - and the present Royal Canadian Dragoons (Reserves) have a mounted musical ride, a la the RCMP, which features lances.

So, if these heads are Canadian, which is quite possible, my best guess is that they were made up for a ceremonial unit - mounted guard squad such as the Gov. Genera's Horse Guard or some such. I would tend to that opinion too because, oddly enough, the seem too small for batlle use, even at 10.5 inches. The modern lances I've seen intended for actual use all had heads which were triangular in cross section - worse wounds and easier to withdraw - and along with headsof 9-10 inches had shafts which included straps running down the shaft for 18" or so, to prevent their being cut off by swordsmen. That pattern seems to have been pretty universal in the Empire - I've seen 4,5 British and several Indian lances - and in two lances which I believe were South American.

The rebels of 18137 here in Upper Canada armed themselves with pikes. In fact, the blacksmith at Holland Landing, north of Toronto, one Samuel Blount was either hanged or transported - can't recall - for arming the scurvy knaves. OTOH, the use of screws seems fairly modern - I would have expected nails or rivets in anything made much before the late 1800s.

It might be worth checking some period photos for similar lance points. All I can suggest at this point.

Another intriguing puzzle!

Peter

[Michael Johnson]

As I recall in the events following the 1837 rebellion in Upper Canada there was a Militia unit in Niagara which was styled as Lancers. Now whether they in fact were ever armed with lances is an open question. I believe they took part in the so-called "Short Hills Insurrection". Details are a little fuzzy as my recollection goes back to an essay I did in first-year university (1970-71).

It would appear unlikely: http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/mil/can/1837/batt_short.shtml

It was probably Cruickshank's book I used for the essay. He was a prominent Niagara historian a century ago. His works on the War of 1812 are excellent.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Michael Johnson

[Brian Wolfe]

Thanks Peter and Michael.

I too felt they were too short and of the wrong shape to have been used in any official battle capacity.

The search indeed goes on.

Regards and thanks again for your assistance.

Brian