(sweet) mini medal bar with BEM question

[paddywhack]

so i am over with the girlfriend visiting her friends and i managed to pick this up in a little shop in shrewsbury!its a nice 7 place mini with a nice British Empire Medal on it! my question though about it is,who would this be to? (officer NCO or enlisted?) also shouldnt there be a 39-45 medal on it? and finally any chance of an ID as the BEM isnt to common! any help would be great!!thanks!! :beer:

[paddywhack]

and the back!! again any help would be great!! :beer:

[Noor]

Very nice! I like the mounting especially! 39/45 war medal is second last on your bar .

But I am sure there is no way to narrow down owner of this set because BEM - rest of it is way too common.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Noor

[Ralph]

The BEM was awarded to enlisted ranks below the rank of Substantive Warrant officer. The WW2 medal entitlements indicates service at Home i.e. he did not appear to enter an active theatre of Operations. The LSGC indicates a regular with at least 18 years service - although this now becomes problematical as in order to qualify for the WW1 pair he must have enlisted by the latest 1918. THis would mean that he became entitled to the LSGC by 1936 = George Vth obverse. (There could have been an element of split service but I am not sure what previous service, if any, was allowed to be carried forward for the LSGC)

Due to the combination I doubt if it would be possible to put a name to the group

[paddywhack]

The BEM was awarded to enlisted ranks below the rank of Substantive Warrant officer. The WW2 medal entitlements indicates service at Home i.e. he did not appear to enter an active theatre of Operations. The LSGC indicates a regular with at least 18 years service - although this now becomes problematical as in order to qualify for the WW1 pair he must have enlisted by the latest 1918. THis would mean that he became entitled to the LSGC by 1936 = George Vth obverse. (There could have been an element of split service but I am not sure what previous service, if any, was allowed to be carried forward for the LSGC)

Due to the combination I doubt if it would be possible to put a name to the group

thanks for the info! so does it mean that the LSGC medal shouldnt be on or was maybe a mistake or is it still illegit???thanks again!! :beer:

[Ralph]

thanks for the info! so does it mean that the LSGC medal shouldnt be on or was maybe a mistake or is it still illegit???thanks again!!

NO - it could be that the relevant medal was not available, the tailor just took a LSGC - The Miniatures were always purchased privately and never issued officially. I do not think the group is "made up" to impress but reflects the entitlement and was worn as such.

[paddywhack]

NO - it could be that the relevant medal was not available, the tailor just took a LSGC - The Miniatures were always purchased privately and never issued officially. I do not think the group is "made up" to impress but reflects the entitlement and was worn as such.

thanks for that as that last medal really did have me wondering what the story is!!!! :cheers:

[Tony Farrell]

Broken service is perfectly admissible towards the LS&GC provided it is stated upon re-enlistment and is acknowledged to be of the required standard.

[paddywhack]

so was thinking about this bar and im going to take a stab at his career! joined in late 1918 maybe didnt leave the army till after the war then rejoined after 36 and was there for ww2 but not in a active area of operation so didnt get the 39-45 star(which i meant about asking why the 39-45 was missing!sorry bout that!) and during this time he was awarded the BEM and then qualified for the general service medal and was at some point in Palestine!i suspect this guy was a desk jockey during ww2!!!pity we cant get an ID!!would i be right??(again its a wild stab at this!!)thanks again!! :beer:

Edited April 26, 2010 by paddywhack

[Megan]

Split service is normally recognised by the individual completing qualifying service post-reenlistment, then any former service is immediately added in so he gets a bar to the LS&GC quicker than normal! It might have been that when ordering his miniatures, your man just asked for an Army LS&GC without specifying which monarch should be on it (if not particularly interested in medals he may not have known or cared!).

[Ralph]

He would have required a total 36 years service to qualify for a Bar to the LSGC so that would take us to 1950-1954. I have a feeling that he may have been commissioned - the wearing of miniatures by ORs during the 1940/1950s was not as prevalent then as it is now. If so then he would have to have served at least 30 of the 36 years in the ranks

Would be a very nice full size group to have.

[Michael Johnson]

He could have enlisted in 1916 and earned his LSGC by 1934. Stays in, perhaps switching to the R.A.S.C. or R.A.O.C., serves in Palestine. Perhaps is stationed in Persia or Iraq (aid to Russia, perhaps?) and gets the B.E.M. Given a commission around 1944.

I once owned a B.E.M. to the R.I.A.S.C. for service in PAIForce.

[paddywhack]

He would have required a total 36 years service to qualify for a Bar to the LSGC so that would take us to 1950-1954. I have a feeling that he may have been commissioned - the wearing of miniatures by ORs during the 1940/1950s was not as prevalent then as it is now. If so then he would have to have served at least 30 of the 36 years in the ranks

Would be a very nice full size group to have.

would be a VERY interesting group to have full size as then it would be named and we could find out what he did to actually get it!!!

still a nice interesting set a 2 war vet!!!!thanks for all the info!! :beer:

Edited April 28, 2010 by paddywhack

[Mervyn Mitton]

What I liked with your post is that they are miniatures. They are so often neglected and whilst they can't be easily researched - or, have a great value - there are still good genuine and inexpensive groups to be bought. Within our ranks I can only think of Noor and Thomas (in Capetown) who regularly show examples. Who else collects mins. ?

[paddywhack]

What I liked with your post is that they are miniatures. They are so often neglected and whilst they can't be easily researched - or, have a great value - there are still good genuine and inexpensive groups to be bought. Within our ranks I can only think of Noor and Thomas (in Capetown) who regularly show examples. Who else collects mins. ?

i have to say after getting this set i am quite fond of them and im going to see if i cant get a few more!the detail on them is simply amazing and well i probably wouldnt have been able to afford the full set!!!it is a pity the we cant get a name but that life i guess! :beer:

[jagwca]

Have noticed that most of you ignor the GSM Clasp for Palestine earned during the period 19th April 1936 and 3rd September 1939 numerous Regimens qualified so not a lead there but narrows down a 3 year period of service

john