Kyffhäusermedaille mit Palästina

[Troy Tempest]

Hello again! Does anyone think it's likely that this Palestine clasp is either genuine or would be attached to a Kyffhäusermedaille if it was genuine?

[Naxos]

Hello again! Does anyone think it's likely that this Palestine clasp is either genuine or would be attached to a Kyffhäusermedaille if it was genuine?

Cannot comment on the originality of the Gefechtsspange- but the ribbon is wrong for the Kyffhäusermedaille.

Edited May 2, 2010 by Naxos

[Troy Tempest]

It's a Hindenburg Cross ribbon I believe? The ribbon is folded like an Austrian award isn't it? Any Austrians in Palestine?

[Chip]

Yes, there were Austrians there. Mostly artillery and support troops.

Chip

[Naxos]

Have a look here: http://ksmvb.gmxhome.de/pages/kyffh_spangenpag.html

Edited May 2, 2010 by Naxos

[Troy Tempest]

Thank you Chip and thanks for that link Naxos.

[HeikoGrusdat]

The clasp is a fake , the ribbon is wrong and the whole thing comes from Mr.Frankensteins castle..... :shame:

[Troy Tempest]

Hi Heiko, I know it's got the wrong ribbon, but can you tell me why the clasp is a fake please?

[HeikoGrusdat]

Believe me.... I had hundreds of original ones in my hand and hundreds of faked too....

[Tony]

We believe you but it would be interesting to know what us uneducated types should look for instead of just saying it's a fake.

Is it the colour, the shape, the pins on the back, something missing on the front or something else?

In short, what's the difference between a standard fake and an original?

Tony

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Tony,

its tricky in my opinion as one has to take care when posting such information on a Public Forum, as we would not wish to educate the people making the fakes to their mistakes.

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[Troy Tempest]

Kev and Heiko, perhaps someone could send myself and Tony a PM explaining what we should be looking for, I accept the clasp is a fake, but still have no idea why, or what I could/should look for in the future. I'm here to learn!

[Tony]

Kev,

You have a valid point but in my opinion a faker who really wants to con us knows what he's doing, there's enough of them around and if they want to make a good copy, have the money to do it, then what's stopping them.

We're not educating them on how to make a fake better, if they wanted to, they could probably ask their friends or buy an original and make an exact copy. E.g. how many clasps to the EKII for the Franco Prussian war are around and how many were issued?

I'm just of the opinion that if it's a known copy/fake we should be informed of the differences, just saying it's a copy is no use to anyone. No disrespect meant or intended Heiko.

Tony

[HeikoGrusdat]

Tony..... sometimes things are not as easy explained as people want them to be explained... and in todays world sometimes it is the only way to just say "it is a copy" ...sorry but especially the colonial battle clasps have seen some new and very better fakes during the last year - the enemy is getting better and makes it harder for us...

I have no clasps at home to make scans for some fake-original comparism..... also I don`t want to explain the exact details of these things , as Kevin said.... don`t teach the fakers too much.... the actual fakes of these Kyffhäuser clasps around on ebay and other sites are far away from beeing good fakes - all can be detected by a small look. The Palästina shown here is one of these...

I will not give you exact data but I can say that the original has different meassures , different shape and a bit different writing. You cannot see the backside prongs here but the fakes have different prongs to the original too...and of course different material.

I don`t want to post links to running auctions because the sellers would not like that but I will keep my eyes open for some things on ebay and pm you Troy and Tony to show you the good ones and the bad ones..

cheers

Heiko

[Tony]

Thanks Heiko.

I only have one clasp which I bought years ago in Germany but unfortunately I don't know where it is at the moment and don't have a photo of it either. It's the Brest-Litovsk clasp.

Are some rarer than others?

Although I have many Imperial German bits and bobs my main collecting area is WWI Commonwealth, hence the cluelessness here.

Tony

[HeikoGrusdat]

Hi Tony,

of course there are clasps that are more rare than others.... depends on what they were for.... there were over 100 of these clasps for the Kyffhäuser medal and you can imagine that more soldiers (many thousends...) could get for example the clasp for the battle at the Somme or for your example Brest-Litowsk - because hundred thousends soldiers fought these battles - but only a hand full of men would have got clasps like Palästina , Südsee , Ostasien or other exotic clasps....

cheers

Heiko