Unknown prussian Uniform?

[Jurgen Fritz]

Dear gentleman,greetings

I try to found the first Prussian Regiment of my Grandfather born 1882 he served in an West-Prussian Infantrie regiment (maybe in Garrison"Lauban" in 1900s?)-today Poland- Regmt."von Coubiere" as "Musqueteer "maybe? cannot found any pictures?

I only remember he had an blue prussian Uniform with "zitrone yellow" Cuffs?sadly all Documents and Uniform lost-I got some Photos(Black&White) but no Regmts Number to see?

I got also Photos from IWW France and know his Units there.

For any Idea on the Regiment very thankfull

best Regards

Jurgen

[Mike Dwyer]

Dear gentleman,greetings

I try to found the first Prussian Regiment of my Grandfather born 1882 he served in an West-Prussian Infantrie regiment (maybe in Garrison"Lauban" in 1900s?)-today Poland- Regmt."von Coubiere" as "Musqueteer "maybe? cannot found any pictures?

I only remember he had an blue prussian Uniform with "zitrone yellow" Cuffs?sadly all Documents and Uniform lost-I got some Photos(Black&White) but no Regmts Number to see?

I got also Photos from IWW France and know his Units there.

For any Idea on the Regiment very thankfull

best Regards

Jurgen

There was a regiment named Infanterie-Regt. von Coubière (2.Posensches) Nr.19, part was stationed in Görlitz and part was in Lauban. The collar and cuffs should be red, the shoulder straps should be yellow with a red "19" on them.

I got this information from Kaiser's Bunker at this web page http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/infantry1.htm

[Jurgen Fritz]

There was a regiment named Infanterie-Regt. von Coubière (2.Posensches) Nr.19, part was stationed in Görlitz and part was in Lauban. The collar and cuffs should be red, the shoulder straps should be yellow with a red "19" on them.

I got this information from Kaiser's Bunker at this web page http://www.kaisersbu...w/infantry1.htm

Hello Mike-thanks for INFO-cannot be that then I look for Yellow Cuffs? indeed my Grandfather lived in "Punitz "(Kreis Posen) today Poniec Poland

Shure he mentioned "Lauban" but cannot remmebr in what Context?What Regiments there had Yellow Cuffs?

Thanks again Regards Jurgen

[Mike Dwyer]

Hello Mike-thanks for INFO-cannot be that then I look for Yellow Cuffs? indeed my Grandfather lived in "Punitz "(Kreis Posen) today Poniec Poland

Shure he mentioned "Lauban" but cannot remmebr in what Context?What Regiments there had Yellow Cuffs?

Thanks again Regards Jurgen

Hi, Jurgen,

At the time of your Grandfather there were no Prussian infantry regiments with yellow cuffs, they all had red collars and cuffs. Only the shoulderstraps were different colors. The shoulder strap colors were usually tied to which Armee Korps the regiment belonged to. The Infanterie-Regt. von Coubière (2.Posensches) Nr.19 was part of the V Armee Korps. There was another V Armee Korps unit, Grenadier-Regt. König Wilhelm I (2.Westpreußisches) Nr.7, stationed in Liegnitz (now Legnica, Poland), that had yellow Litzen on the collar and cuffs, perhaps that is the yellow you're thinking of?

The only V Armee Korps regiment with yellow cuffs was the Dragoner-Regt. von Bredow (1. Schlesisches) Nr.4, which was stationed in Lüben (now Lubin, Poland).

[Jurgen Fritz]

Hi, Jurgen,

At the time of your Grandfather there were no Prussian infantry regiments with yellow cuffs, they all had red collars and cuffs. Only the shoulderstraps were different colors. The shoulder strap colors were usually tied to which Armee Korps the regiment belonged to. The Infanterie-Regt. von Coubière (2.Posensches) Nr.19 was part of the V Armee Korps. There was another V Armee Korps unit, Grenadier-Regt. König Wilhelm I (2.Westpreußisches) Nr.7, stationed in Liegnitz (now Legnica, Poland), that had yellow Litzen on the collar and cuffs, perhaps that is the yellow you're thinking of?

The only V Armee Korps regiment with yellow cuffs was the Dragoner-Regt. von Bredow (1. Schlesisches) Nr.4, which was stationed in Lüben (now Lubin, Poland).

Hello Mike very interesting-I got an black and white Photo of my Granddad-like to show it here but have to found out how to load that?(I'am no good with Computer-maybe my son in law can help- The Phote shows clear the prussian Uniform with prussian Cuffs(Look white on the picture(but were zitron yellow 100%shure)not Litzen the whole Cuff Patte were the Buttons is fixed(a Mysterie?) He was not a Dragoner (infantrie Musqueteer) and Pics IWW (France) shows a variety of Fielduniforms (I tried to found in Germany) but the cannot make it out he was in 1914(moved to Hamburg to live) in the "76"Hamburg Infantrie(I guess Reserve Regiment he was then 32 Years old) the had great Casultys and he went in an high numbered (war Regmt.)until 1918.Maybe there is some more INFO?If I found out about the Pic.I will show it here?Best Regards &Thanks for your Interest!Jurgen

Edited June 24, 2010 by Jurgen Fritz

[Jurgen Fritz]

Hello again Mike-I just seen a picture of the Regiments Colors (Von Coubiere) the Maincolor"Zitron Yellow"??the Commander in 1901:von Lueder

It gives a Book:Regiments Historie with Colorplates-I copyed a Picture but very smal & faintet -it looks like one of the Figures have the Blue prussian Coat(maybe the 1860/70s Uniform?) with yellow Cuffs??

Still a Mystery?I had another Look at my Grandfathers Photo-the Cuffs for shure on this B/w Photo a bright Color looks White!

For more Help very thankfull!

regards

Jurgen

[Jurgen Fritz]

Hi again Mike-There is another Thought-On this b/w Photo my Grandfather looks about the age of 32 the Photo is taken in an Photo atelier (possible Hamburg)just befor WWI(and he joined(Volonteer?) the Hamburg 76 Regiment(Reserve? in August 1914) I guess-whats puzzle me he wears an then "old fashioned Bayonet Type 1870?" cauld it be the Photographer lent the Uniform for the Picture?-but looks a "good Fit"?-still I saw the Uniform after his Death 1954- in the Wardrobe-zitron yellow Cuffs? another Photo in 1915 on Leave shows annother Type of Uniform:Blauer "Rock"?or grey "Peace Uniform"?with 8 blanc Frontbuttons(Brandenburg- Cuffs show dark )White?Shoulderpads Peaked Cap with double Cacade:prussian & "Hamburg Cross Cocade."Ersatz"?Belt with Prongbuckle and "Ersatz"all Steel Bayonet?Shows "Reserve" was differnet Uniformed to all "Fieldgray" in 1915?

(In 1916/- November18: Number 417.Inf.Regmt.2.Kompagnie?)any INFO on this?)

He had on Decorations:Iron Cross/Hanseaten Cross(Hamburg) and Ehrenkreutz for Frontkaempfer(Hindenburg)after WWI given.

Others Photo shows him in France in fieldgray "Fieldblouse" Fieldcap with an "white" Stripe (but Cocade on Top)?Could be MG Gunner (the covered red stripe)?The last Photos(Of bad health he served in Officers Cassino as Ordonance-an un identified Uniform with covered Button front dark high color with an "Monogramm"?

The V.ArmyCorps had also Inf.RegmtNR 154?White Cuffs? best Regards Jurgen

Edited June 25, 2010 by Jurgen Fritz

[Mike Dwyer]

Hello Mike very interesting-I got an black and white Photo of my Granddad-like to show it here but have to found out how to load that?(I'am no good with Computer-maybe my son in law can help- The Phote shows clear the prussian Uniform with prussian Cuffs(Look white on the picture(but were zitron yellow 100%shure)not Litzen the whole Cuff Patte were the Buttons is fixed(a Mysterie?) He was not a Dragoner (infantrie Musqueteer) and Pics IWW (France) shows a variety of Fielduniforms (I tried to found in Germany) but the cannot make it out he was in 1914(moved to Hamburg to live) in the "76"Hamburg Infantrie(I guess Reserve Regiment he was then 32 Years old) the had great Casultys and he went in an high numbered (war Regmt.)until 1918.Maybe there is some more INFO?If I found out about the Pic.I will show it here?Best Regards &Thanks for your Interest!Jurgen

Hello, Jurgen,

I apologize, I may have misunderstood what you originally said. The actual cuff on all Prussian infantry uniforms were red, but the cuff patte was sometimes a different color. According to the information I found, only 1 regiment had a yellow cuff patte, the Infanterie-Regt. Prinz Carl (4. Großherzoglich Hessisches) Nr.118

stationed in Worms, which was part of the XVIII Armee Korps. You mention Hamburg, the Infanterie-Regt.Hamburg (2.Hanseatisches) Nr.76 was stationed in Hamburg and was part of the VIII Armee Korps. The regiment had a red cuff patte, but it was edged with yellow.

Another regiment that was near where he lived that had a white cuff patte was the 5. Niederschlesisches Infanterie-Regt. Nr.154, stationed in Jauer, with the III Batallion in Striegau, and was part of the V Armee Korps. That is about all I can find.

Edited June 25, 2010 by Mike Dwyer

[Jurgen Fritz]

Hello, Jurgen,

I apologize, I may have misunderstood what you originally said. The actual cuff on all Prussian infantry uniforms were red, but the cuff patte was sometimes a different color. According to the information I found, only 1 regiment had a yellow cuff patte, the Infanterie-Regt. Prinz Carl (4. Großherzoglich Hessisches) Nr.118

stationed in Worms, which was part of the XVIII Armee Korps. You mention Hamburg, the Infanterie-Regt.Hamburg (2.Hanseatisches) Nr.76 was stationed in Hamburg and was part of the VIII Armee Korps. The regiment had a red cuff patte, but it was edged with yellow.

Another regiment that was near where he lived that had a white cuff patte was the 5. Niederschlesisches Infanterie-Regt. Nr.154, stationed in Jauer, with the III Batallion in Striegau, and was part of the V Armee Korps. That is about all I can find.

Hello Mike-thanks for searching I may concentrate on the last Inf.Regmt.you mentioned Nr 154 V Army Corps

I had also an Photo(lost)shows him on an Riflerange(Warthelager maybe?)with spiked Helmet shooting an old (M88 Rifle or carbine?)

Still a Mystery-I will see to post the Photo? best Regards Jurgen

Edited June 26, 2010 by Jurgen Fritz

[Jurgen Fritz]

Hello an P.S>

I searched for some Years I remember-all prussian Army Records are lost through Bombing Raids in the IIWW in Berlin

Photos is all what is left..Sometimes old "regiment Historys" in Bookform appear on "ebay"or "militaerpasses but God nows were my Grandfathers went?My Mother possible sold that and the questioned Uniform with the Yellow Cuffpatte?)-could be he bought this after the IWW as a "memento"??somwere or given by a Friend?a "Mysterie"!

regards

Jurgen

Edited June 26, 2010 by Jurgen Fritz

[Jurgen Fritz]

Good Morning Mike-greetings!And many Thanks again for your help!

I just thinking again-The 5.Niederschlesisches Inf.Regmt.154 you mentioned hat a white Brandenburg Cuff Patte?-but yellow Shoulderpads with red Nr.??

My Photo shows for shure a dark (red?) shoulderpad

I just looked at an former research by you on an Oberleutnant with white Cuff Patte(piping?)another Mysterie

there you mentioned more prussian regmts like 8.Westpreussisches Inf.Regmt Nr 175 White Patte (blue Pipings

3.Schlesisches " " 156 "

5.Westpreussisches " " 148 " "

The Uniform appeareas" black" on the b/w Photo-so the Cuff Shoulderboards and Collar/peaked Cap but will be prussian dark?Blue Patte :"White"

Now after thinking again(the Uniform with the yellow Cuffs found in wardrobe) was a lighter blue??but had Brandenburg Cuffs- zitron yellow Patte??maybe the mentioned Hessisches Nr 118 ??(he could keep for some unknown Reason) more Mysterys!?

best Regards yours Jurgen

[Mike Dwyer]

Good Morning Mike-greetings!And many Thanks again for your help!

I just thinking again-The 5.Niederschlesisches Inf.Regmt.154 you mentioned hat a white Brandenburg Cuff Patte?-but yellow Shoulderpads with red Nr.??

My Photo shows for shure a dark (red?) shoulderpad

I just looked at an former research by you on an Oberleutnant with white Cuff Patte(piping?)another Mysterie

there you mentioned more prussian regmts like 8.Westpreussisches Inf.Regmt Nr 175 White Patte (blue Pipings

3.Schlesisches " " 156 "

5.Westpreussisches " " 148 " "

The Uniform appeareas" black" on the b/w Photo-so the Cuff Shoulderboards and Collar/peaked Cap but will be prussian dark?Blue Patte :"White"

Now after thinking again(the Uniform with the yellow Cuffs found in wardrobe) was a lighter blue??but had Brandenburg Cuffs- zitron yellow Patte??maybe the mentioned Hessisches Nr 118 ??(he could keep for some unknown Reason) more Mysterys!?

best Regards yours Jurgen

Hello, Jurgen,

You have to also remember the old film in black and white actually changes the way colors look. Yellow often shows up as very, very dark in the old photos.

[Jurgen Fritz]

Hello, Jurgen,

You have to also remember the old film in black and white actually changes the way colors look. Yellow often shows up as very, very dark in the old photos.

Hello MIke-got my E-Mail with Photo this Morning OK?

Maybe you can make better the Colors out?The Shoulderboards look maybe "red" so Color& Cuffs/Cap band ?Any more Suggestions-very thankfull Yours jurgen

[Mike Dwyer]

Anyone out there want to jump in and help? Here is the photo of Jurgen's grandfather, Ludwig. Jurgen was thinking Ludwig was in the Infanterie-Regt. von Coubière (2.Posensches) Nr.19, but that regiment didn't have a white or light colored cuff patte. There was a regiment stationed near where he lived, that had a white patte, the 5. Niederschlesisches Infanterie-Regt. Nr.154. Jurgen recalls the cuff pattes being yellow, but according the sources I have only one regiment, Infanterie-Regt. Prinz Carl (4. Großherzoglich Hessisches) Nr.118, had yellow cuff pattes and it was stationed in Hesse.

[Mike Dwyer]

A later photo of Jurgen's grandfather, Ludwig Czerniejewski. Possibly in the uniform of the Reserve-Infanterie-Regt. Hamburg Nr. 76. Infanterie-Regt. Nr. 76 had red cuffs with a red patte edged yellow, with white should straps.

[Mike Dwyer]

A picture of Jurgen's grandfather taken in France.

[Mike Dwyer]

Two later photos of Jurgen's grandfather, Ludwig, wearing what he identifies as an Ordonanz uniform, which I am not really familiar with. One showing Ludwig by himself, another playing cards with comrades.

[Mike Dwyer]

The last photos Jurgen relating to his grandfather Ludwig Czerniejewski. His medals and bayonet.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Mike Dwyer

[Jurgen Fritz]

Hello dear Mike-thanks very much for posting my Pictures-hopefully comes some Response to them?

best Regards and Thanks again!

Yours Jurgen

[joerookery]

I have been following this avidly. I love doing this kind of research and I don't know why. Keeps me off the streets at night I guess. The real question in my mind is where did he live–which Bezirkscommando did he enter in–and therefore which regiment.

None of that is easy. One thing I think you have missed is that somewhere this guy is 32 years old. That makes him a Landwehr guy. The Polish town that was mentioned is between different Bezirkscommando's and is nowhere near Lauben. so did he live in the Polish town or near Lauben? From what I have seen I would vote for somewhat east of Lauben. I would agree with the assessment that the initial Regiment therefore was 154. I believe the first picture the gentleman is younger and is wearing the regimental uniform of JR 154. At some point in time he moves to Hamburg and ends up in RJR 76–that is consistent with his status in the Landwehr and also consistent with his medals.

The Polish connection is what's really confusing–name changes and provinces. It really is nowhere near Poznan but it is in the V Army Corps. This is loads of fun! Thanks for tracing this.

[joerookery]

I forgot to add that I think the uniform with the yellow that was somehow lighter blue sure sounds like a dragoon and is probably not related.

[Jurgen Fritz]

I have been following this avidly. I love doing this kind of research and I don't know why. Keeps me off the streets at night I guess. The real question in my mind is where did he live–which Bezirkscommando did he enter in–and therefore which regiment.

None of that is easy. One thing I think you have missed is that somewhere this guy is 32 years old. That makes him a Landwehr guy. The Polish town that was mentioned is between different Bezirkscommando's and is nowhere near Lauben. so did he live in the Polish town or near Lauben? From what I have seen I would vote for somewhat east of Lauben. I would agree with the assessment that the initial Regiment therefore was 154. I believe the first picture the gentleman is younger and is wearing the regimental uniform of JR 154. At some point in time he moves to Hamburg and ends up in RJR 76–that is consistent with his status in the Landwehr and also consistent with his medals.

The Polish connection is what's really confusing–name changes and provinces. It really is nowhere near Poznan but it is in the V Army Corps. This is loads of fun! Thanks for tracing this.

Hi Joe! thanks for looking-My Grandfather was born in "Punitz"(today Poniec Poland) near Posen it's an old polish Family Connection-but tbts another Theme- born 1882-in Hamburg 1914 (volonteer?) 76.Hamburger Reserve Regiment Through the war see my Post about later Regiment please Best Jurgen

[joerookery]

What I have been trying to determine is where he lived when he was 20 years old? The location of the Bezirkscommando he reported to at the age of 20 could help us pin down which regiment key originally belonged to. I believe the first picture to be from his active time when he was younger 20–22 years old. Hamburg came later and he could well have been a volunteer– often times this would affect the individuals rank and how he was called. Perhaps no longer a musketeer but rather a war volunteer.

[Jurgen Fritz]

What I have been trying to determine is where he lived when he was 20 years old? The location of the Bezirkscommando he reported to at the age of 20 could help us pin down which regiment key originally belonged to. I believe the first picture to be from his active time when he was younger 20–22 years old. Hamburg came later and he could well have been a volunteer– often times this would affect the individuals rank and how he was called. Perhaps no longer a musketeer but rather a war volunteer.

Hi again Joe!

he lived in Punitz near Posen(Town Westprussia in that age ca20 Years old) helps that?best Juergen

[joerookery]

That town is not near Posen. this shows the regimental garrisoning in 1909. The black numbers are the infantry regiments and you can see where infantry Regiment 19 is. it's a good question!