Portugal - War Cross

[Tim B]

Can someone tell me the differences between these Portugal War Cross? Is there a specific timeline to which type is which?

The first one has the 1917 date on it and is supposed to be WWI.

Thanks in advance!

Tim

[Tim B]

Here's another one, also described as being WWI, with a citation cross on the ribbon. Note the design is similar utilizing the countrie's coat of arms but, the other side is different and there is no date on this one. Also, note the difference in suspension.

Post WWI?

Tim

Edited June 25, 2010 by Tim B

[Tim B]

Here's the last one; note it has a similar suspension ball as the 1st example and the ribbon matches the 2nd example.

So, are all three Portugal War Cross, or are these other two something else? Different periods?

Tim

[Eric Stahlhut]

Here's another one, also described as being WWI, with a citation cross on the ribbon. Note the design is similar utilizing the countrie's coat of arms but, the other side is different and there is no date on this one. Also, note the difference in suspension.

Post WWI?

Tim

examples with the 1917 date and this type of wire suspension also exist...

Edited June 25, 2010 by Eric Stahlhut

[Tim B]

Hi Eric,

Yes, another example.

So, are these differences related to a specific period of issue or ... ?

Tim

[Hugh]

And here's a different type, bought from Butteler in Lisbon in the '60's. I suspect it was of current issue when I bought it.

[Hugh]

And the reverse

[Tim B]

Hi Hugh,

Yes, yet another example. I would tend to agree this one is a more modern issue but, I had thought the example I posted in post #3 was also more modern when comparing to the others; based on the design.

Hopefully, someone with a little more in-depth knowledge of Portugese awards will have the answers.

Best,

Tim

[Olharapo]

Hi!

1st one its a wwi type

2nd a portuguese legion type

3rd colonial war type

4th another wwi type

5th type looks like a differente colonial war model, but I´m not sure.

Best regards

[Tim B]

Thank you for that information!

Tim

[Tim B]

Thank you for that information!

Tim

I meant to ask if there were any good online reference sites for Portugese awards? I haven't found any.

[Tim B]

Finding some new information here and will post for discussion hopefully.

The War Cross was established by Decree No. 2870 of November 30, 1916 to reward acts and deeds of bravery performed in the campaign. The award received notoriety during World War I and during the Portuguese Colonial War. Divided into 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade, in descending order of importance.

The War Cross, slightly inspired by the French Croix de Guerre (mainly in the colors of ribbon suspension), had, throughout its history, three different types or models, respectively legislated in 1916, 1946 and 1971.

So, it appears there are three different variations in the medal itself and I now believe the sample posted in post #2 above is a 4th Class award of the 1946 type or model, based on a similar example I've seen offered.

Then, based on the information above, the style shown in Post #3 must be the 1971 example?

What are the differences in the four grades or classes? Are there differences in the suspension ribbon (like a rosette) or are they neck & breast type orders?

Getting there...

Tim

Edited July 12, 2010 by Tim B

[Tim B]

Hugh,

So, it appears your piece is of the 1946 type and as you correctly suspected, would have been the current version when you purchased it in the '60's.

Tim

Edited July 12, 2010 by Tim B

[Hugh]

Hugh,

So, it appears your piece is of the 1946 type and as you correctly suspected, would have been the current version when you purchased it in the '60's.

Tim

Thanks for this additional piece. Now, if someone will ferret out the ribbon devices and other distinctions...

Hugh

[Olharapo]

Hi.

There are some differences between the models.

Take the 1916 War Cross for an example: there are 4 (I think) models with slight differences, normally in the thickness, the central figure and in the rim.

Here you can see for yourself two 1916 war cross types (from my collection), and the one from the 1st pic.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Olharapo

[Tim B]

Very nice!

So, do you attribute the differences to different makers/manufacturers, or are these differences perhaps differentiating between the colonial pieces you mentioned earlier?

Regards,

Tim

[Olharapo]

Very nice!

So, do you attribute the differences to different makers/manufacturers, or are these differences perhaps differentiating between the colonial pieces you mentioned earlier?

Regards,

Tim

I believe that they are from different manufacturers. The same happened with the Victory Medal.

Unfortunately, there are not much information about Portuguese medals and most of the information passes around in forums or throw a rare enthusiast (normally someone in the army, a museum curator or a collectionist).

[Tim B]

Hello again,

Yes, very hard to find information on Portuguese awards. Any clue on how many maker's might be involved here? I would also be very interested in seeing different manufacturer versions of the Victory Medal if you have any.

Thanks for adding to the thread!

Tim

[Olharapo]

Hello again,

Yes, very hard to find information on Portuguese awards. Any clue on how many maker's might be involved here? I would also be very interested in seeing different manufacturer versions of the Victory Medal if you have any.

Thanks for adding to the thread!

Tim

About the VIC, all I know is that there are 2 official types and 2 unofficial. I believe that there is a later type in a shiny metal made for those who had someone in the family that fought in the WWI but no medal.

But I'll ask a friend of mine about this matter. I knows allot more than me about the VIC.

You can check the my collection page (http://picasaweb.google.pt/joaosilvapsi/MyCollection#). I have the 1st official model and latest one.

No prob about adding to the thread. I enjoy to exchange knowledge :)

[Ulsterman]

Cool!

I think CSM Furtado wrote a very comprehensive JOMSA article on these a few years back. I'll go see tomorrow if I can dig it out.

[Tim B]

That would be cool! Hopefully some more light can be shed on these.

Does the JOMSA still sell back issues and if so, how far back?

Tim

[Ulsterman]

Yes they do sell back issues waaaaay back to the mid 1990s too!

The OMSA.org web site has details.

[SasaYU]

Very nice crosses. I like the look.

[Ulsterman]

Bingo!!!

Furtados' article on these was in the November/December 2008 issue of the JOMSA. It Has EVERYTHING you need in it.

The state legislated the cross and private firms and shops in Portugal manufacture different variations. The old state military factories/mints have closed and these are still made today. Apparently, there is therefore, no such thing a a "fake' version of the cross. French firms may also have made the cross after WW1.

There are three different types with different centers (national shield)and reverse motifs: 1917, 1949 and 1971

[Tim B]

That's good to know about the old OMSA articles. I had seen an ebay seller that recently had several of these older ('70's era) magazine lots offered for auction dirt cheap, but they were hit or miss of which ones he had and it always seemed the ones I were after were missing from the group.

Looking at the site, I do not see where it shows what magazines and what contents are available. Do you have to be a member to view this?

Thanks!

Tim