ralstona Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 (edited) Anybody seen the Orders of the Cloud and Banner being sold on Ebay out of St. Petersburg, FL? Opinions on them? I have been in a back and forth with the seller. He says they are genuine and have paperwork (which he has not pictured). He has sold three in the last month all of which he claims are genuine "AVG" medals. The current one has a buy it now price of $500. Edited July 17, 2010 by ralstona
Hugh Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 Anybody seen the Orders of the Cloud and Banner being sold on Ebay out of St. Petersburg, FL? Opinions on them? I have been in a back and forth with the seller. He says they are genuine and have paperwork (which he has not pictured). He has sold three in the last month all of which he claims are genuine "AVG" medals. The current one has a buy it now price of $500. I wonder if this is the same guy who has been faking named US medals here in St. Pete? If you can give me a name, and I can ask around the local community. I'm a collector, not a seller, so my interest is in cleaning up the marketplace. Best, Hugh
ralstona Posted July 17, 2010 Author Posted July 17, 2010 I wonder if this is the same guy who has been faking named US medals here in St. Pete? If you can give me a name, and I can ask around the local community. I'm a collector, not a seller, so my interest is in cleaning up the marketplace. Best, Hugh It goes beyond that. His ebay id is FlyingTigerHistoricalorganization. He claims to be affiliated with that organization (if it exists). I believe there is something going on here. I am a collector too and am very suspicious of claims of documented groups that don't show documents, are being "Buy it Now"ed for low (but still substantial) prices and look like all those other fakes coming out of China. They are relatively well made, so I can see why a novice would be fooled. He says these are awards that AVG members were entitled too but never claimed.
Hugh Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 (edited) It goes beyond that. His ebay id is FlyingTigerHistoricalorganization. He claims to be affiliated with that organization (if it exists). I believe there is something going on here. I am a collector too and am very suspicious of claims of documented groups that don't show documents, are being "Buy it Now"ed for low (but still substantial) prices and look like all those other fakes coming out of China. They are relatively well made, so I can see why a novice would be fooled. He says these are awards that AVG members were entitled too but never claimed. Here's a page for the organization. Lots of impressive names and titles. Who knows? http://www.flyingtig...m/ABOUT-US.html This is the bio from that site of an individual in St. Pete. I don't know anything about him, and am certainly not making any allegations. Philip VanZandt Born in Kalamazoo, MI 1936 to father in YMCA work. Parents had young friend killed during the USS PANAY incident in China pre-war, and shadow of that tragedy was to darken memories and instill patriotism within them both. WW II years spent with parents in the USO; moving frequently throughout middle, south, and western states as father set-up and managed many USOs at air-base city locations. Post-war moved back from Philadelphia to Detroit and was educated at Detroit University School, followed by Michigan State University BS in 1958. 4-years Air Force ROTC and summer-camps, but with Korean War over, pilot demand was not high. Employed by the automotive industry until 1973 when relocated to Florida and opened a sailboat hardware & rigging shop. Retired in '98; moved to China to explore countryside & culture. Married a Chinese lady from Guilin and resided there off and on until 2008. Current location: St. Petersburg, FL. Personal e-mail: vansos@hotmail.com I have a few Chinese pieces, but I'd surely be very cautious about anything coming out of China. Would love to know if you find out more, especially if you get a name. Best, Hugh Edited July 17, 2010 by Hugh
ralstona Posted July 17, 2010 Author Posted July 17, 2010 (edited) Here's a page for the organization. Lots of impressive names and titles. Who knows? http://www.flyingtig...m/ABOUT-US.html I have a few Chinese pieces, but I'd surely be very cautious about anything coming out of China. Would love to know if you find out more, especially if you get a name. Best, Hugh Nothing to say that this guy is ACTUALLY associated with this group. They're in China so he doesn't really have to be worried about them coming after him. And if he was affiliated with this group, why in God's name would they be selling important peices on Ebay for way below market value? It just seems fishy. Ha Ha, I just read his "About ME" section on ebay. He claims to be a historian with this Chinese Museum. He is asking for donations to the museum as well. He also claims that while they have lots of uniforms for the museum, they still need medals! So why are you selling them on Ebay? Hmm... Edited July 17, 2010 by ralstona
Hugh Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 Nothing to say that this guy is ACTUALLY associated with this group. They're in China so he doesn't really have to be worried about them coming after him. And if he was affiliated with this group, why in God's name would they be selling important peices on Ebay for way below market value? It just seems fishy. Ha Ha, I just read his "About ME" section on ebay. He claims to be a historian with this Chinese Museum. He is asking for donations to the museum as well. He also claims that while they have lots of uniforms for the museum, they still need medals! So why are you selling them on Ebay? Hmm... And he's a historian with the Chinese museum living in St. Pete? That's taking outsourcing to the extreme!
ralstona Posted July 17, 2010 Author Posted July 17, 2010 (edited) Who knows. Maybe I am wrong. He could be legit. Edited July 17, 2010 by ralstona
heusy68 Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 Who knows. Maybe I am wrong. He could be legit. Hello Gentlemen, I saw the item that you mention on ebay.The reverse was silver & not numbered..... Real one reverse of chinese Orders are silver gilt !!!! And Could & Banners are always numbered. I agree the item that was offered on ebay look better than the "older fake" ,by older I mean fake made 3 to 5 years in the past. It seems chinese fake makers are rising their quality and will deceive more & more collectors. Emmanuel
hc8604 Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 (edited) Look at the seller's bidding history and past auctions through the feedback link. He has bought and sold a lot of these medals in the past. There were a few times he would buy the dadao swords and sell them with a few pictures of some tourists (says it was an actual family who owned it), a good story.. He once listed a hat (before he started doing medals) and stated it was from the AVG. Well, it was dated 1987 and comes from the Taiwan Army. I told him this and he removed it from ebay and sold it to me for cheap. His story goes that he found it in a chest from an AVG member... Edited July 18, 2010 by hc8604
hc8604 Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 Seems to be the same person... watch out. http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/clt/1891774442.html
ralstona Posted August 24, 2010 Author Posted August 24, 2010 He is back at it. FOUR more on ebay. Now a bit more vague about their age. Still not saying they are total FAKES they are.
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