Stogieman Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 ooooooooooooooo. I'm thinking Heiko will be as green as my trademark backdrop when he sees these!
Guest Rick Research Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 Hey! Didn't you "retire" from collecting?
Stogieman Posted December 31, 2005 Author Posted December 31, 2005 OK, OK........ Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time.....
Stogieman Posted December 31, 2005 Author Posted December 31, 2005 Maybe green is better....... Kermit certainly thinks so!
HeikoGrusdat Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 HeHe... quaaak quaaak Welcome to Kermits silvestre party!!!Stogie, we had this one discussed on a german forum before and we all had the same opinion on the 2 clasps... we don`t think that they are real and old, but if you have them in the hand maybe you can tell us more... problems are the poor quality of the letters which is normally very high on this mini clasps and the text.... the name should be "Nossob" and not "Nassob"....and there is no different writing possible.can you give more details on the bar?Heiko
HeikoGrusdat Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 To make this a bit more clear... of course there were different writings on some battle clasps, mostly on the inofficial ones. I will give some examples:1870/71: "an der Lisaine" "a d Lisaine" "Lisaine" ----- "Mont Valerien" "M.Valerien" ---- "Paris" "Vor Paris" ---- "Metz" "Cernierung von Metz" China : "Kitschou" "Kitchou" ---- "Nan-Hung-Men" "Nang-Hu-Men" ---- "Liang-Siang-Shien" "Liang-Hsiang-Hsien" ---- Kuan-Tschang" Kuantschang" Soutwestafrica: "Nurudas" "Narudas" (since 1908) ---- "Karas-Berge" "K?ras-Berge" "Karasberge" ---- "Herero-Land" "Hereroland" BUT Nossob is Nossob and not Nassob... there is no reason why this place should have a new name. This and the not very fine making of this clasp is what me gives not a very good feeling on these clasps....any other comments are welcome Heiko
Stogieman Posted December 31, 2005 Author Posted December 31, 2005 Good Morning Heiko, why don't you show us all the fake clasps for ribbon bars? Thanks!!
Bob Hunter Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 I don't think anyone has all the fake clasps available although Heiko may surprise us all. It would be useful to show a bar with a close up of a good clasp and another bar with a closeup of a fake. That would help illustrate the point Heiko is making.
HeikoGrusdat Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 Rick and Bob, here is an example for what I want to say.... the original one (Tientsin) is a quality product just like the big ones ---- the faked clasp (Auob) is of very poor quality, you nearly can`t read the letters.... that`s the difference....
Bob Hunter Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 Point well made, Heiko. That Tientsin clasp is a real prize!
Stogieman Posted December 31, 2005 Author Posted December 31, 2005 We shall see. My point is, if these are fakes, why are we not seeing them on a weekly basis as is with all the other fakes we know about. In the past 5 years I have seen exactly three examples of any ribbon bar with any clasp. Never mind the deluge one would expect with a faked item. Rick research will examine the clasps next week and make proper scans. Until then, we shall all just have to wait.In the meantime, I'd like to see every example of an authentic and fake Afrika clasp posted. Obviously, some must exist somewhere. I think when you are dealing with an extremely rare object, one should put much more effort into documenting a position one way or another via multiple examples to reinforce the contention as opposed to just saying "sorry, I don't like it so it must not be real".Rick R. has several bars with known/real bars from this era, as opposed to China, which we will compare with next week.In the interim, Happy New Year!This reminds me of the full-sized Afrika bar Heiko posted that he did not think was real......... since that time, not a single example of one of those bars has appeared..... so we have someone who has put forth substantial effort and expense to fake a bar, but is willing to only sell one bar every year to recoup his investment? A patient crook? I find that very difficult to accept.
Bob Hunter Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 I look forward to RR's scans. That will be a fun start to the new year. I do have a question about the stippled background on these bars. Is that type of background common to all bars or only certain makers? That question may answer itself as more known authentic examples are posted.Stogie, in your experience have you ever known a bad guy to do test marketing?
Stogieman Posted December 31, 2005 Author Posted December 31, 2005 The Afrika Bars are an entirely different animal from the China Bars. Rick has a bar that has two bars, of two different sizes on it. We'll do a comparison next week. Rick has even promised to lick the bars.
HeikoGrusdat Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 (edited) Rick,I don`t know right now of which african bar you are talking but during the last month there were about 50 faked colonial battle clasps only on ebay germany - 50!!!! Just in one online auction house...... It is a good idea to show all clasps we have and then we can discuss each one. I had promised that to Rick Research earlier in the year but had not the time to do, sorry again. Now I will take the time and scan all clasps I have.... tomorrow I will start.HeikoPS: here is the original miniature Peitang Forts bar of Oberst Kadelbach - great artwork!!! Edited December 31, 2005 by HeikoGrusdat
Bob Hunter Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 (edited) Oh, YUK! (This is a response to Stogie's post not Heiko's.) Edited December 31, 2005 by Bob Hunter
Stogieman Posted December 31, 2005 Author Posted December 31, 2005 Heiko, there have not been miniatures on any auction house on-line in the past year or longer............. other than one Venezuala bar from Nordwind on Militariaweb for 350- Euro.
HeikoGrusdat Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 forget Nordwind.... the Auob ribbon bar is from him as well OK, I misunderstood you, minis were not very often seen, but the two on your bar and the Auob from my bar has the same style, and Nordwinds Venezuela mini also.... I have some groups with minis that are 100% authentic, new year will start with a great and gigantic thread... by the way, what is the meaning of "YUK" ???Heiko
Bob Hunter Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 (edited) Heiko, that is a colloquial or slang expression that means ugly, sickening, awful, nasty, and in this case particularly bad tasting and is intended as a humorous reference to RR licking the bars. All intended in fun. Edited December 31, 2005 by Bob Hunter
HeikoGrusdat Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 Thank you very much - these are the things you will never learn on german schools....
Stogieman Posted December 31, 2005 Author Posted December 31, 2005 I don't know, you have to watch him very carefully....... he will lick anything you bring over to scan...... kind of like my kid who licks her leftover slice of pizza so no one else can eat it....... maybe Rick licks everything so no one else can have it?
HeikoGrusdat Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 I think I would take every bar he has - licked or not
Bob Hunter Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 I second that thought, Heiko. He does have some eye-popping bars!
Stogieman Posted December 31, 2005 Author Posted December 31, 2005 That is only because you have not watched him lick them........... eeewwweeeee yuck!
Les Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 That is only because you have not watched him lick them........... eeewwweeeee yuck!(wee small voice at the back of the class)Maybe it's that -long- association with furry household creatures.....instead of the cats thinking they are human, maybe someone is starting to think and act like a cat? javascript:emoticon('', 'smid_7')javascript:emoticon('', 'smid_25')smiliesmilieLes (trying to hide his name and who posted this....)
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