new medal book topics

[RichC]

Hello all,

I am currently writing a book on Japanese medals that I hope will be the definitive source. I have been collecting books and ephemera over the years, and I have quite a few original documents and books written in Japanese with information never seen before in English. The scope goes far beyond anything I have posted on my site. It should be at least 400 pages of text (not including pics--and the text is in regular font). I should have the ebook ready to go by next spring (summer at the latest) if my three kids cooperate with my plans. Anyway, this post is not a shameless plug for an upcoming book. It is a query:

What pressing questions do you have about Japanese medals? I know there are tons of issues that many would like to be resolved. I'm not sure if I can address every one, but I'll try. If you have any questions that have never been answered to your satisfaction, perhaps I can find the answer. At the least, I'll look into the matter.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Cheers,

Rich

[Dieter3]

Hi Rich,

Tons of questions and desires for a new work. I know Paul is working on something as well, but I don't know the exact content and level of detail. Can you give us a verbal preview of the content??

Some of the things I am very interested in include a summary of hallmarks and proofs used on the various awards - and to extend this, more information about the Osaka mint and any other sub-contracted makers of awards. I'm also very keen on subtle manufacturing differences among awards, and there are obviously many - EX: The China Incident medal with a flat bar vs. rounded bar on the backside - but I want to see this in pictures, not merely written description. Same deal with cases - I want to see them in COLOR. Sure, more expensive if your printing it, no cost for an eBook though. Black and white while practical, simply does no justice to the beauty of the awards. While it may not matter to a lot of folks, I really enjoy learning about the actual construction and materials utilized to build things - I'm sure you have encountered a LOT of stuff - and messed up stuff that has given you insight into how things were assembled, etc. I'm fascinated by this type of thing, certainly less critical in the grand scheme of things though.

Also, better definition on specific differences and roughly when changes occurred - mostly applies to orders - but a great example is the Rising Sun - when exactly did the two columns of kanji change to one, when did gold change to silver, etc., etc. - I think a lot of folks have an idea about this, but it has never been enumerated in an English work that I know of and the lone Japanese language one that I have - well, I simply haven't read it! (Ahem, had it translated for me..... )

Numbers of awards issued of course, as best they can be told - would be great if folks could chime in and provide data on actual document numbers and dates to get some sense of what was issued and the rough time period, how those numbers evolved with time.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with Japanese firearms at all, but there are several very detailed works on them - this is what the Japanese medal world needs - something along that level of detail as best it can relate. The Medals and Orders of Japan book is a good primer, and reference, but it falls short on the details in my opinion. I suppose this really depends on your target audience though - who are you aiming at?? Beginning collector, advanced, everyone?? How soon are you planning to release it??

A small section on oddities might be neat too - seeing that "female" Boxer Rebellion medal in taquito22's post made me think about that - maybe not official, but neat nonetheless! The Japanese bayonet books go into this sort of thing in some measure of detail - war souvenirs, GI custom jobbies, etc., etc. - maybe incorporated into a section about fakes and repros!!!????

If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Dieter3

[Claudius]

Hello all,

I am currently writing a book on Japanese medals that I hope will be the definitive source. I have been collecting books and ephemera over the years, and I have quite a few original documents and books written in Japanese with information never seen before in English. The scope goes far beyond anything I have posted on my site. It should be at least 400 pages of text (not including pics--and the text is in regular font). I should have the ebook ready to go by next spring (summer at the latest) if my three kids cooperate with my plans. Anyway, this post is not a shameless plug for an upcoming book. It is a query:

What pressing questions do you have about Japanese medals? I know there are tons of issues that many would like to be resolved. I'm not sure if I can address every one, but I'll try. If you have any questions that have never been answered to your satisfaction, perhaps I can find the answer. At the least, I'll look into the matter.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Cheers,

Rich

Hello Rich;

I wish you every success in your project. While I don't collect Japanese medals (directly) I find them interesting and beautiful. They fall into my center of interest when they happen to be for someone who was at Tsingtau 1914 or if they are an award on an Imperial German medal bar. (I had purchased a medal bar with a Rising Sun 3rd or 4th class award, but a dealer employee mistake sold the bar to another person. That really hurt...but I digress). In general, I would be interested in what the official criteria the Japanese used to award their gallantry, merit, campaign or tribute medals.

Specifically, my question that is two-fold is;

1) Are there any surviving lists of foreigners that received Japanese awards?

2) When the Japanese awarded medals to foreigners, what criteria did they use -if any? For instance, I have seen examples of Germans receiving the Rising Sun award or the Sacred Treasure. Any official records? Is there a body of evidence that may show when one is used over the other?

PS: I don't mind "shameful plugs" for upcoming books. Sometimes its the only way I learn what new information sources are out there. Thank you for letting me know and good luck on this venture!

Edited July 20, 2010 by Claudius

[Richard LaTondre]

Hello all,

I am currently writing a book on Japanese medals that I hope will be the definitive source. I have been collecting books and ephemera over the years, and I have quite a few original documents and books written in Japanese with information never seen before in English. The scope goes far beyond anything I have posted on my site. It should be at least 400 pages of text (not including pics--and the text is in regular font). I should have the ebook ready to go by next spring (summer at the latest) if my three kids cooperate with my plans. Anyway, this post is not a shameless plug for an upcoming book. It is a query:

What pressing questions do you have about Japanese medals? I know there are tons of issues that many would like to be resolved. I'm not sure if I can address every one, but I'll try. If you have any questions that have never been answered to your satisfaction, perhaps I can find the answer. At the least, I'll look into the matter.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Cheers,

Rich

Hi Rich!

One of the most interesting aspects would be if anyone had access to Osaka etc. mint archives etc. and could

give the number of the higher ranking Orders manufactured and also the name and dates of the recipients.

. . . . You asked!

Best of luck and regards,

Richard LaTondre

www.thegoldenkite.com

[JBFloyd]

There were large numbers of Japanese officers who were members of the MIlitary Order of the Dragon from their service in China for the Boxer Rebellion. However, I've never a Military Order of the Dragon to a Japanese office in the market. Where did they all go?

[RichC]

Thanks for the replies and ideas. A few of what you all mentioned I will include: who was eligible for medals, how many of each were minted (I hope to get official numbers on each war and commemorative medal), case inscription history (if I can find official documentation), and assorted oddities of medals, like how much each medal, ribbon, case, etc cost the gov't to produce (yes, I have those numbers!). Richard, if you are interested in post-war medals, the official numbers of each class of decoration have been published--as well as the names and addresses of each recipient! There are heavy tomes dedicated to this. Similar books exist for merit medals. These all date from 1964 (the year medals began being awarded again) so pre-war info is not readily available. I think the older info was kept in the official Mint rolls, which allegedly were destroyed during the WW2 firebombing.

Dieter, you are expecting some answers that may never be found. I think minor variations of medals (like a rounded suspension bar) were not duly recorded. Each Imperial Rescript (all of which I'll include in my book) details what the different parts of the medal looked like, but I think smaller variants were just done on the fly. I'll keep looking, though. And as for mintmarks, well, I'd love to solve that mystery. I'm not sure I can, but it is one of the topics I've placed under my HARD TO DO heading. Still, I have lots of stuff to read and translate here, so it is possible.

Claudius, I don't think foreigners were held to a different standard for the decorations and medals. And I wouldn't think there would be a separate list for them, but since there is currently a separate ceremony for awards to foreigners, perhaps I'll find something.

Jeff, I'll keep my eyes open for Chinese medal info. I cannot read Chinese well, so I am limited to my Japanese sources.

The book is really aimed at all medal enthusiasts. Along with the obligatory history of Japanese decorations, I'll have all the rescripts (as mentioned), details of ceremonies, details on making of medals and documents, various stories about recipients, military badges--oh, the list goes on. I hope to back up everything with primary & secondary documentation so the source will be authoritative. Well, if I mean to do well, I guess I shouldn't be writing such long posts. Thanks for your comments and if you have any other questions, please post them. I'll jot them down in my notebook and get to work.

Cheers,

Rich

Edited July 20, 2010 by RichC

[Tim B]

Hi Rich,

I'm sure you have more than enough to research and the book would only grow with more material. I might add some infomation on the cases, lettering styles and the period differences between them. Also, the small rosette/bows for the lapel devices that came with these awards.

One area and probably something better left for a separate book, would be the subject of medal and ribbon bars. I see so many that appear genuine but the combinations and bar placements are all over the place, I couldn't tell if something was original or made up yesterday. That, for me, is a very confusing area that I wish I had a good reference on.

Good luck!

Tim

[RichC]

Thanks for your input, Tim. I'll try and address the different changes over the years to the boxes and the medals themselves on the decorations, but again, without documentary evidence, it will be difficult. Finding the documents would mean having access to the various companies that made the medals prior to 1928, and that may prove to be impossible. However, I may find directives from the Japanese govt regulating the various styles. That would be fantastic, so I'll concentrate on those. Rosettes will be covered.

Your last idea confused me a bit. Are you asking about the metal bars that connected the medals? Or the order of wearing medals? Or how to spot a put-together set?

Rich

[Tim B]

Hi Rich,

On the subject of medal/ribbon bars, I am referring to how they would be worn as a group (medals) and (ribbons). An order of precedence would normally answer the correct order, however it appears that some wore awards out of order.

Some examples would be wearing the Rising Sun and Sacred Treasure. Normally, you would see the RS having precedence however, if the member received a higher grade ST, then that was worn in the higher position. What were the rules?

I see bars with the campaign ribbons (or medals on a medal bar) that seem to be mounted in various order of precedence. Were they supposed to be worn only a certain way or was there authorized variations here as well?

So, in all that, I think most collectors would like a definitive answer when looking at bars to see if they are in fact legit, clearly a "made-up" fantasy piece, or as we see in other military groups, some variation depending on circumstance.

Hope that better answers what I meant above.

Tim

Edited July 22, 2010 by Tim B

[RichC]

I got it. I think there is plenty of official documentation to answer those questions. I'll make sure to address them in my book. Thanks again.

Rich