Luftwaffe Unqualified Gunner GWL

[Steve K.]

Time to stir the pot!

I have yet to see another one in nearly ten years and have never seen an attempted fake. All the characteristics match GWL by my eye, but what say you?

Steve

[J Temple-West]

Afternoon, Steve

Now, now....give us a chance....how about a shot of the back.

Some thoughts on the obverse:

Remnants of the lightning bolts can be seen, indicating a non-factory modification from RO/AG to unqualified AG which would also mean that the refinish would be non-standard making any assessment pretty difficult.

The eagle also looks very soft and thinner than originals I've come across but that could be down to the photography...angles etc

Lastly, the tail looks to be attached to the wreath at a different angle than those on accepted originals, something to consider.

[Steve K.]

Afternoon, Steve

Now, now....give us a chance....how about a shot of the back.

Some thoughts on the obverse:

Remnants of the lightning bolts can be seen, indicating a non-factory modification from RO/AG to unqualified AG which would also mean that the refinish would be non-standard making any assessment pretty difficult.

The eagle also looks very soft and thinner than originals I've come across but that could be down to the photography...angles etc

Lastly, the tail looks to be attached to the wreath at a different angle than those on accepted originals, something to consider.

Some computer problems on my end prevented me from posting the reverse last night. I was lucky to get the thread started!

Anyway, here's the pic.

All good points JTW but the eagle's tail is not soldered to the wreath and the bolts have not been removed from the claws. It appears the claws are just really ugly looking and have always been the sore spot for me on this badge. Granted the eagle does look soft and thinner. GWL has always had "goose"-necked birds.

[J Temple-West]

Thanks for the shot of the reverse, Steve.

I would have to disagree with you regarding the removed bolts. The comparison clearly shows remnants of the bolts, and compared to the factory produced AG/FE (bottom)... somewhat different I think you’ll agree.

Anyway....Although it looks to be expertly done, for me it all comes down to when the refinishing was done.

[Wood]

Isn't the swastika on these badges supposed to be silver?

Pete

[Steve K.]

JTW

Very good! I've been schooled! -- and I'm the one in possession of the item for nearly 10yrs!

Sometimes I overlook the obvious.

Steve

[Guest Darrell]

IMO the badge is a poorly cast fake. Details are lacking to say the least and the reverse looks horrible.

[Steve K.]

IMO the badge is a poorly cast fake. Details are lacking to say the least and the reverse looks horrible.

I will disagree with you that it is a fake. Have you seen others?

What portion of the reverse "looks horrible"?

Steve

[Guest Darrell]

I will disagree with you that it is a fake. Have you seen others?

What portion of the reverse "looks horrible"?

Steve

The reverse of the eagle for starters. Unless it has been refinished causing the surface to be very uneven.

Can you get better or larger pics by any chance?

[Tom D.]

Hi guys,

I am on the fence with this one. Ultimately though, I think it is an original GWL badge, but that has been refinished to be an UQAG. John, have you ever seen an UQAG badge from any other maker other than Deumer?

Firstly, I agree with John that the eagle is a typical ROAG, but with the bolts filed off. The silver finish doesn't look like what I would expect from other GWL products, namely their AG and ROAG wreaths. Secondly, the black on the wreath also is not what I expect to see from GWL, looks too matt and subdued. Compare this to the finish they used on their typical ROAG and AG eagles, as well as their Para badge wreaths. Not consistent with the finish on those badges in my opinion.

And the rivets don't look to be textbook GWL. So my thought is that the eagle was removed, refinished and then put back onto the wreath with new rivets and given a look to simulate correct GWL rivets. But they don't look quite right.

Steve, some closeups of the rivets, and the hinge and catch with the pin open would give us more information to go on.

Thanks

Tom

[Steve K.]

Hi guys,

I am on the fence with this one. Ultimately though, I think it is an original GWL badge, but that has been refinished to be an UQAG. John, have you ever seen an UQAG badge from any other maker other than Deumer?

Firstly, I agree with John that the eagle is a typical ROAG, but with the bolts filed off. The silver finish doesn't look like what I would expect from other GWL products, namely their AG and ROAG wreaths. Secondly, the black on the wreath also is not what I expect to see from GWL, looks too matt and subdued. Compare this to the finish they used on their typical ROAG and AG eagles, as well as their Para badge wreaths. Not consistent with the finish on those badges in my opinion.

And the rivets don't look to be textbook GWL. So my thought is that the eagle was removed, refinished and then put back onto the wreath with new rivets and given a look to simulate correct GWL rivets. But they don't look quite right.

Steve, some closeups of the rivets, and the hinge and catch with the pin open would give us more information to go on.

Thanks

Tom

I would have to disagree with much of what you said. I think the rivits are GWL. They have the typical GWL look. Colors look fine to me and compare to other UAG in finish.

I will post close up as requested over the weekend.

Thanks for the input,

Steve

[Karsten S]

Hi Guys

Very interesting thread indeed.

I must say that I am with Darell on this. IMO there is no doubt that this is a cast from an original ROAG.

I would be very surprised if this bird holds the dimensions and weight. What immediately stroke me was the very narrow long neck, slim wings and body. The wreath also seems more oval that usual, but this can of course be due to the angle of the image.

As Tom mention the rivets are off. They look very titty/convex which that are not suppose to. The rivets should be in a flat cylinder shape, and it is the rivet tool that has the point in the center which occur on the rivet when tightened by stroke. The rivet should look like a flat donut and not pointy.

Steve, when you add new images, could you please make a side shot of the eagle, to determine if it has a slightly concave shape?

Best Regards

Karsten