French Coupe-Coupe

[Jurgen Fritz]

Good Evening Gentleman,

Please help me by identifiing a "Coupe-Coupe" in my Posession,

IT's maker marked with a smal Stamp SPERRY on both wooden Handle grips and scabbard so some Opinion has it "not french" purchased in USA

The messurements are excact like the french one?The Scabbard has inside (Rivet in) a brass Blade Protector-maybe that helps to fix a date to it?

For any Help very Thankfull, Best Regards

J.Fritz

[Jurgen Fritz]

:rolleyes: Good Morning Gentleman-here a Picture of the Coupe-Coupe Blade

My other Pictures are to big (Scabbard) have to find a Way to make them smaler

Best Regards

Juergen

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hard to say.... why do you think it is US as opposed to French?

[Chris Boonzaier]

By the way, this is not a weapon as such... it is a outil individuel (sp?)... or tool.

Some soldiers had an entrenching tool some an axe, some a serpe and some a coupe coupe.

It is still the same way in the French army today.

Best

Chris

[Jurgen Fritz]

:rolleyes:

Hard to say.... why do you think it is US as opposed to French?

Good Morning Chris,thanks for your Interest

Well,I had an Discussion about this Tool Machette- (In IWW used by the "tireilleurs Senegalaise" as Trenchweapon!-the got wrong for that) The Germans shot them..

It's the marking:"SPERRY" a "Expert"frenchman told me-this is "anglosaxon" and I bought in USA-so his Opinion:No french!-But as I said the messurements ect like the french "Coupe-Coupe"..?

My Guess:maybe made in USA for Vietnam-war use

by US -SPERRY Corporation?-it could be older- (but maybe was in Store?) -It could be from the french Indochine War 1954-I know the French Army&Legionaers used it there?

(mentioned in Literatur ect.)-Then I heard after 1945 the stud to close the Scabbard was then Aluminium?-My ist (so the Rivets & Bladeprotector in the brown Leather Scabbard"Looks old Patina?) are brass.

I really like to found more about the "french Connection" and how old it is?There are also guesses that the Leather would have rottet away in Djungleclimat&Monsoon I guess the Blade is Carbon Steel

For any more friendly Answers very thankfull? (If any more INFO needed from my Side I will do my best)

Best Regards

Juergen

[Jurgen Fritz]

:unsure:Hello again Cris,

please see here a Picture of the "Fairsome Senegalaise" IWW

best Regards Juergen

[Jurgen Fritz]

:rolleyes: Hello Gents,

here some Pictures of the Scabbard:"Coupe-Coupe"

The Maker?SPERRY tosee on the Beltloop?

Many Thanks for watching

Regards

Juergen

[Jurgen Fritz]

P.S.

and Scabbard SPERRY mark on Front (please see "old Patina?" my guess could be 1950s?

Regards

Juergen:rolleyes:

[Chris Boonzaier]

Good Morning Chris,thanks for your Interest

Well,I had an Discussion about this Tool Machette- (In IWW used by the "tireilleurs Senegalaise" as Trenchweapon!-the got wrong for that) The Germans shot them..

Hi, tthe design is very much like the French one.

Fact is, this was not ISSUED as a wepaon. I saw your post on the British Blades forum where someone listed the official french army makers, the official army makers had nothing to do with making tools.

The colonial troops had these as tools and brought them with to europe for the war, so then a regular soldier may have used his spade for trench fighting, the colonials would have had a coupe coupe. A practicle thing to have. Most armyies entrenching tools doubled as weapons.

best

Chris

[Jurgen Fritz]

Hi, tthe design is very much like the French one.

Fact is, this was not ISSUED as a wepaon. I saw your post on the British Blades forum where someone listed the official french army makers, the official army makers had nothing to do with making tools.

The colonial troops had these as tools and brought them with to europe for the war, so then a regular soldier may have used his spade for trench fighting, the colonials would have had a coupe coupe. A practicle thing to have. Most armyies entrenching tools doubled as weapons.

best

Chris

[Jurgen Fritz]

:rolleyes: Hello Chris- Many Thanks for Your friendly answer-Yes I agree it's made for use as a Tool,and used as Machette in Pathclearing ect..

There is still the Problem who was the Maker SPERRY (USA maybe?) and how old it is-I like to found out..

Yes I had a "heatet Discussion" on British Blades and dicided no more to contact them-It went very personal from there Side and I don't like there "ungentlemanly insulting ways"..

I know about the old marked french Blades and mine has no Blademarks

It could still be ones made for colonial or Civil Purpose

Best Regards

Juergen

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hello Chris- Many Thanks for Your friendly answer-Yes I agree it's made for use as a Tool,and used as Machette in Pathclearing ect..

There is still the Problem who was the Maker SPERRY (USA maybe?) and how old it is-I like to found out..

Yes I had a "heatet Discussion" on British Blades and dicided no more to contact them-It went very personal from there Side and I don't like there "ungentlemanly insulting ways"..

I know about the old marked french Blades and mine has no Blademarks

It could still be ones made for colonial or Civil Purpose

Best Regards

Juergen

The important question (I think) is who did the French army buy their stuff from?

I would imagine that there were (over the years) countless different firms that produced tools for the french army. Not limited like arms makers under contract. I am sure that when it comes to coupe coupes the only real difference was whether you bought it at the store, or were issued it with a sheath.

Sperry does not sound very french at all. Maybe made in the USA? maybe French made without a stamp and "Sperry" was a retailer who stamped the handle?

I imagine it is impossible to say.

Best

Chris

[Jurgen Fritz]

The important question (I think) is who did the French army buy their stuff from?

I would imagine that there were (over the years) countless different firms that produced tools for the french army. Not limited like arms makers under contract. I am sure that when it comes to coupe coupes the only real difference was whether you bought it at the store, or were issued it with a sheath.

Sperry does not sound very french at all. Maybe made in the USA? maybe French made without a stamp and "Sperry" was a retailer who stamped the handle?

I imagine it is impossible to say.

Best

Chris

Hello again Chris --yes it's difficult - I really have to think about this..someone mentioned "SPERRY Corporation USA" the made some Bombsights and military Equipment for (Vietnam?) war..Tough the US Army had there own Machettes(Canvas Scabbards).(until the prefared to have also this Type) I see also Your Point:made french Blade assembled by a Retailer-could be all over the World or former french Colonies?-What really get's me the total Likeness to Original made french Coupe-Coupes? I'am also not shure whenn the stopped making them,I discovered that the French foreighn Legion since 1958 has a longer machette in use (Guayana) Handle very similar Wood rivetet- Leather Scabbard-indeed- Leather.. I have also seen a french one similar to mine with an Canvas Sheet..another Point is the age:"What do You Think,how old (judging from my Pictures) could my machette been..looking at the Leather Patina (some light "scruff marks" inside signal maybe was used on a Belt) I can only guess maybe 50 Years?I have only seen another Picture of an Example (very worn) with the Rivetet Bladeprotector in the Scabbard I will find the Picture..all IWW Items have not this-only the Button fastener.Maybe some Gentleman can help..Mamny Thanks again Best Juergen:rolleyes:

[Jurgen Fritz]

:D Here comes the Picture of an old Coupe-Coupe with"3 Rivets" like mine,hold inside a brass Bladeprotector so not to damage the Scabbard with the sharpend Blade? Maybe could indicate mine is from that Period?

postet by an Ex-french Army (Indochine?)Soldier -maybe that helps-all IWW Scabbards I seen are without this..only 1 Button bst Juergen

[Jurgen Fritz]

Good Morning Chris,

Thanks again for Your Interest and Help..

on this interesting Topic "Coupe-Coupe"..I got an "Update" just heard from an Collector of french Militaria,In his Opinion it could be French after all..

He says he has seen english names on leather Equipments that were made in France??he mentioned Charles Sutter who helped "Chauchat with the CSRG"(light mashine Gun?) and he was french..

He says further:The Blade looks legitimate as an Original to him,and french Equipment even from the IWW were used in Indochine 1950s?

It's a very french Military Custom to issue old Equipment again later on?-The Mysterie continues..If I heare more I will update my Topic

Best Regards

Juergen

[Chris Boonzaier]

It's a very french Military Custom to issue old Equipment again later on?-The Mysterie continues..If I heare more I will update my Topic

Best Regards

Juergen

I dont think it is a question of issuing WW1 equipment in Indo china.

it is more a question of issuing equipment that works over a long period of time. As something like a coupe coupe has not changed in hundreds of years, I am sure they would have been issued until they broke or got lost. I remember having a 1944 stamped entrenching tool in 1990.

best

Chris

[Jurgen Fritz]

I dont think it is a question of issuing WW1 equipment in Indo china.

it is more a question of issuing equipment that works over a long period of time. As something like a coupe coupe has not changed in hundreds of years, I am sure they would have been issued until they broke or got lost. I remember having a 1944 stamped entrenching tool in 1990.

best

Chris

[Chris Boonzaier]

P.S. things like a "serpe" are probably in service for decades as well as you cannot break them. We even had the odd WW2 German Jerrycan.

[Jurgen Fritz]

Hello Chris,Yes thats interesting,I guess in Traditonal Armys like the British and French this are the Case,

I was in the early 60s an "Panzer-Grenadier"NCO in the new West-german Army- (also served on US M41 Light Walker Bulldog Tank)indeed we lost nearly all our Tradition(and Typical Steelhelmets unsurprisingly)-so most Equipment was first from the USA some British..after it prooved that the US Browning light mashine Guns was to kumbersome for Infanterie use-we got the original german Wartime MG 42 back "Stamps with WaA Eagle" on all Parts-but soon replaced by new made ones from "Rheinmetall"without "third Reich Stamps"..thats the only Weapon or Equipment I remember what was possible stored and Issued again after IIWW -apart from some Carbine 98 by the "Wachbattailon" Honorguard in Bonn..

Also interesting: that the "Coupe-Coupe" was maybe befor 1914 issued to french Colonial Troops since 1889 or even befor?The Germans had a "Fashinemesser" and the most "unpopular" Butcher-knife Bayonet with serratet Edge-some were grinded out after french Protests and Threads! I found also that Machettes are today in great Demand in Africa 100.000s exportet from China!

Indeed not the "Coupe-Coup" Type-it's the "PANGA" with more lenghs and curved Blade..Thanks again

,and maybe get some more interesting Views-even some Photographic evidence on Coupe-Coupe? Bst Regards

Yours Juergen:D

[Chris Boonzaier]

I was issued a French army coupe coupe in Central Africa in the early 90s. It was longer and not as good a quality as these old ones. Nowdays I assume the army takes things like this from the cheapest bidder.

Best

Chris

[Jurgen Fritz]

Thanks Chris,for the last two Messages,

Now You mentioned "Jerry Cans",Yes we had them also marked 2WW..

Now I'am retired for a While I got all Time doing my Researches-keeps me "mental active" I guess

Interesting You had a Coupe Coupe in Your Servicetime(even more interesting in Africa) Yes the Quality now,many made from Stainless Steel against rust- easier breakcable?-( I think the old Carbonblades are better and easier to sharpen?)-but the not that thick and have not the "Cloud"like the old ones,i guess?The "FFL" has now the "Sabatiere"(makes also Cutlery in France) machette since 1958 I heard,longer&Curved and Thinner very similar wooden handle..The british Army used also the Martindale?"GOLOK" Type actuell very similar in shape to the Coupe-Coupe"?Many sayed:The Coupe-Coupe comes in this Style from Africa,proberly right-indeed the Form is similar to the "East -asian originatet"- GOLOK?

There is a Internet-Side Worth-Point-have lots of supposed french Coupe-Coupes You can see some marked some not..ebay has them sometimes-but all sell from the States?? Some Blades marked just FRANCE..

One is Pictured like mine with 3 Rivet in Inforcement of the Scabbard,desribed as:WW1 to Vietnam french Machette of the Foreign Legion,minor pitting and cracking of the Scabbard (surprisingly in Djungleclimat survived!) one Rivet missing-actuell on mine was a Rivet missing (I replaced that) no markings on Machette or Scabbard- how the know?? Never mind-all the Best Regards Juergen

[Jurgen Fritz]

Good Morning Gentlemen,

I just read that in the 1970s in USA "Surplus"(french Army) Coupe-Coupes were sold in Stores for US$3.-!

not so popular weighing heavy..maybe mine comes from there (I bought it in USA) and maybe market there with "SPERRY" by a Dealer with his name?

Is becoming now more interesting and not so often to see..

some Knifeenthusiasts changed the Handle with other Materials(Micarta?) ect &rivet on..saw a Picture and found out how usefull this heavy Blade really is!

For any more friendly answers very thankfull:D

[Jurgen Fritz]

Hello Gents,r

here an Update,I found that "Coupe-Coupe's" are sold from a french Surplus Shop-(40EURO) "La Tranchee Militaire"-unused&unmarked but says from french Army,- Indochine/Algerie-wars?! -so mine could be from that Period (some have Inkstamps FRANCE?) that could be rubbed off?-and marked by an US Dealer "SPERRY"?-Another Update found by a Friend:The around since 1898 (Issued to the french infanterie) after an "ANNAMITE" Pattern-(Indochine)-not "AFRICAIN" (The Colonial Tireilleurs were issued with them)-I thought so befor the Style is more like the asian GOLOK and shall also be used in China-I tried to put Attachements on-but to big?

Best Regards&Thanks for Your Interest

Jurgen