Rose Croix jewel

[wm5806]

Dear All

I hope you don't mind me sharing this scan with you?

It's an unmarked silver and paste collar jewel for the 18th Degree of the Ancient and Accepted Rite (Rose Croix), that I have recently acquired. Sorry for the less than ideal size/resolution of the pic - one of the restrictions on being a 'newbie'. Included for reference is a millimetre scale.

Sadly, the lack of markings means that its origins will never be definitively identified, but I suspect it to be French and probably from the 19th Century.

Regards and a Happy New Year to you all,

WM5806

[attachmentid=21587]

[FireMedals]

Hi WM,

Share on!!!

That's one of the nice things about this forum, looking at things I'll never own.

A nice jewel. Any chance of finding a replacement ribbon, or was it on a collar chain?

Happy New Year,

Firemedals

[wm5806]

A nice jewel. Any chance of finding a replacement ribbon, or was it on a collar chain?

It would have been worn from a scarlet collar, although not knowing the origin, it is difficult to say exactly which variation as there are quite a few differences between the different Rites and changes over the years have been many.

However, here is a picture of the current collar as used in England and Wales (maybe other Rites, too?).

I shall post a picture of the current jewel used in this country in a further post.

Kind regards to all

WM5806

[attachmentid=21735]

[wm5806]

And here's the current style of jewel, although this particular example is dated 1901 and made by Kenning and Son in silver-gilt. Modern versions are the same design but made from gilded base metal, which gives them a rather 'brassy' appearance... yuk!

Regards

WM5806

[attachmentid=21736]

[FireMedals]

Excellent images WM,

Thank you.

Firemedals

[peter monahan]

Wm

Lovely jewels. I must look more closely the next time I see Masonic regalia in an antique shop!

Might one ask why the pelican symbol is used?

I know very little of Masonic lore - we "Papists" are discouraged by our Church from joining - but the "pelican in her piety" is a very Christian (maybe even Catholic?) image. It appears in many of the churches I've been in over the years: the female pierces her own breast and uses the blood to nourish her young - a clear, if rather gory analogy to the body and blood. Medieval in origin, I'm sure. Does it have a special significance for Masons?

Peter

[peter monahan]

Kgard

Fascinating! Thank you very much.

I didn't know that the young birds were resurrected by the blood, but of course, as mentioned, that ties it even closer to Christ: "I am the Resurrection... ". I also din't know that Freemasonry had the close tie to the message of the Gospels, the message of resurrection, which you suggest. So thank you twice!

Peter

[wm5806]

Hi Peter

I think Kgard has given you a far fuller answer than I am able to do. However, perhaps you would let me add to his observations? I must stress that these are my personal opinions and not any 'official' response, nor do I speak for any others, and what I say is based on what I have seen in Fremasonry in England.

The basic degree of Freemasonry worldwide (I think) is that of the Craft degree (or Blue Lodge, as it is sometimes called in the US), for which most governing authorities require a belief in a Supreme Being - whether that is God, Jehovah, Allah, or any of the other monotheistic deities. In that way, it is non-religious, merely encouraging a man to observe his chosen religion, and being all embracing. Indeed, the sacred writings specific to a Lodge's members are at all times on display while the Lodge conducts its business (I have seen the Bible, Koran and Torah open simultaneously in one Lodge I visited).

Within Freemasonry, there are other degrees. Some of these (in England at least) have a similar, all-embracing attitude to a man's Faith and are non-specific about which particular faith he chooses to observe (the degrees bestowed in a Lodge of Mark Master Masons would be an example). However, other degrees (of which I am not a member, so I am happy to be corrected) I believe to only admit members who profess the Christian faith (e.g. Rose Croix, Royal Arch, Knights Templar and Red Cross of Constantine). Hence, I suppose, the Christian imagery.

I realise this is veering slightly off topic now for a Military Interest Club, so will not respond to further discussion on this subject. I regard my religious views as a private matter for myself, although recognise the aims of both organised, mainstream religion and Freemasonry to be promotors of good moral values.

Please forgive my ramblings and I promise to post some more medal/jewel pictures soon for forgiveness!

Sincerely yours,

WM5806

[peter monahan]

WM

Thanks for the explanation. Perhaps a bit off the military line, but the reasoning behind symbolism - military, heraldic, religious or national - is always instructive. Looking forward to more of the jewels!

Peter

[Mike Dwyer]

However, other degrees (of which I am not a member, so I am happy to be corrected) I believe to only admit members who profess the Christian faith (e.g. Rose Croix, Royal Arch, Knights Templar and Red Cross of Constantine). Hence, I suppose, the Christian imagery.

I'm not sure what is done in other countries, but here in the USA the Royal Arch, the Rose Croix (which is just one of the degrees of the Scottish Rite 4th through 33 degree) and even the Knights Templar do not "require" a member to be a Christian. But there are Christian characteristics to some of these degrees. I went through the Scottish Rite and the York Rite (which includes the Royal Arch, Royal & Select Masters, and the Knights Templars) with a member of my Blue Lodge who was Jewish.

[FireMedals]

Mike, WM, and all others;

First, as a collector of many things, military, Masonic, and otherwise, and as one who scans several other forums, I think it is great that we have had several members participate in this topic, with quite a few threads since it was originally started some time back. There is an obvious interest among the membership, and that alone should qualify us for some space.

Second, I would hope the management of the forum doesn't consider our topic to be out of line simply because it isn't "military". There are certainly military connections with Freemasonry in the form of Travelling Lodges that met, and probably still meet, all around the world where Masons are together and can find the time to hold a Lodge. And there are groups like the National Sojourners here in the U.S. who are composed of officers and warrant officers in the U.S. military. (I hope to present some images when I can get to my small collection and get them scanned).

Plus, and most of you may have noticed, there are many Masonic and fraternal medals, jewels, etc., that appear military to the casual collector. I believe this thread is helping to identify these, and make everyone's enjoyment of the hobby a little easier. Some Jewels have already appeared here in other threads for just that purpose. And as I tried to do with my little entry on the membership medal of the Knights Templar (U.S.), it has been misidentified to the point of being used to mislead collectors as being a military piece... so I think we are all very much on topic and in line with the goals of our organizatoin.

Now (off my soapbox) in relation to the remarks about the Rose Croix and religious affiliations; I know of the lack of a requirement for any particular religious belief for the Blue Lodges, and Scottish Rite. Peter's comments have explained a lot about the matter in the English system (Thank you). I can't comment about too many of the other US Masonic bodies, except for what I've read, but I believe, the higher degrees [or highest degree ?] of the York Rite in the U.S. are only open to Christians. Anyone who can clarify that for me?

So let's keep the information flowing. I know I've been picking up the odd Masonic and fraternal pieces for years, and have never seen even a good comprehensive booklet on even a small aspect of this field of collecting. We are starting to do just that right here.

Firemedals

[peter monahan]

Firemedals

"Peter's comments have explained a lot about the matter in the English system (Thank you). "

A kind thought, but not quite right.

It was Kgrd who gave the information. I'm just an earnest seeker after knowledge. Interesting stuff, though, and I agree with your general drift - if I may as a new guy -this isn't really off topic for such a broad forum as the GMIC seems to be.

[wm5806]

I have always understood that in English/Scottish Freemasonry, Rose Croix was the only truly "Christian" degree. Once again it must be highlighted....Other constitutions rituals, jewels, regalia and membership requirements are very different....K

Kgard

You're absolutely correct - I have just checked my copy of KB Jackson's "Beyond the Craft" (for the benefit of others, a handy little publication that explains all the Masonic degrees as worked in England and Wales after Craft Masonry), which confirms your statement about Rose Croix being the only "Christian degree".

However, Jackson also states that:

- in order to be admitted to the Knights Templar/Malta degrees a candidate "must be of the Christian faith" and, consequently as membership of Knights Templar Priest and the Knights Beneficient of the Holy City are restricted to those in KT/M, then it follows that whilst they might not be Christian degrees, they only have Christian members (perverse logic, I know!)

- only Christian Brethren are eligible for the Plymouth Working of the Allied Masonic degrees

- Candidates for membership of the SRIA need to "fully embrace the priciples of Christianity"

So, I think in the interests of harmony and FINALLY CLOSING this post, we can conclude that in England and Wales Rose Croix is the only Christian degree, but there are several others for which a professed Christian faith is a necessary qualification.

I hope that's a fair summary <PHEW!> and let's get back to the medals and jewels!!

WM5806

[sptregalia]

Dear All

I hope you don't mind me sharing this scan with you?

It's an unmarked silver and paste collar jewel for the 18th Degree of the Ancient and Accepted Rite (Rose Croix), that I have recently acquired. Sorry for the less than ideal size/resolution of the pic - one of the restrictions on being a 'newbie'. Included for reference is a millimetre scale.

Sadly, the lack of markings means that its origins will never be definitively identified, but I suspect it to be French and probably from the 19th Century.

Regards and a Happy New Year to you all,

WM5806

[attachmentid=21587]

[sptregalia]

Wm

Lovely jewels. I must look more closely the next time I see Masonic regalia in an antique shop!

Might one ask why the pelican symbol is used?

I know very little of Masonic lore - we "Papists" are discouraged by our Church from joining - but the "pelican in her piety" is a very Christian (maybe even Catholic?) image. It appears in many of the churches I've been in over the years: the female pierces her own breast and uses the blood to nourish her young - a clear, if rather gory analogy to the body and blood. Medieval in origin, I'm sure. Does it have a special significance for Masons?

Peter

I have a very good friend who is R.C. and is a practising Freemason,indeed a Past Master.He says these days the church has nothing against it.

Alan P.M.