taquito22 Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 Hello all, Can anyone verify if this is a Nomonhan Border Incident Document? If so, who was it issued to and when? Thanks in advance.
Paul L Murphy Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 Yes it is. This is a scarce document. The name is Japanese, I cannot make out the family name but the personal name is Hotaro.
Dieter3 Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 Yeah, it's too bad this eBay seller is parting the medal and the document in this way. I do hope they go to the same bidder - that the bidder has interest in both items, that is if the seller's claim is true, I imagine it is. I always hate to see this happen. :banger:
Dieter3 Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 (edited) And wow!!!! A whopping $416.00 for the document and $530.00 for the medal!!!! YIKES. Unless this soldier was somebody of special note, these buyers either have very deep pockets and can afford it, or they were on serious drugs!!!! The seller is smiling all the way to the bank!!! Hey, more power to the folks that can and are willing to drop this kind of coin on these babies. This is a new record that I've seen. Like I said, unless this person was of special note...... And sadly, not even to the same buyer.... Edited October 31, 2010 by Dieter3
Paul L Murphy Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 I listed a cased Nomonhan medal a while back on ebay at a much lower price and it failed to sell ! The seller was lucky, but it is a pity that they medal and document were split up like that.
taquito22 Posted October 31, 2010 Author Posted October 31, 2010 I second that congrats to the seller. I sure wasn't me that won...my bidding stopped long before it got that high. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there really is no way to match a medal to a document. The seller split the medal and document and they went to two different people. But there really is no way to say that the medal was the actual one issued to him in the first place, right? The seller claims it is, but there is no way to prove OR disprove that fact...so wouldn't any Nomonhan medal be just as good with the document? I listed a cased Nomonhan medal a while back on ebay at a much lower price and it failed to sell ! The seller was lucky, but it is a pity that they medal and document were split up like that.
Paul L Murphy Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 Any Nomonhan medal would go with it since the medals are not named. I have listed one for sale on ebay in its case of issue at $425 so it will be interesting to see if I enjoy as much luck as the seller of this lot !
Dieter3 Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 (edited) I second that congrats to the seller. I sure wasn't me that won...my bidding stopped long before it got that high. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there really is no way to match a medal to a document. The seller split the medal and document and they went to two different people. But there really is no way to say that the medal was the actual one issued to him in the first place, right? The seller claims it is, but there is no way to prove OR disprove that fact...so wouldn't any Nomonhan medal be just as good with the document? I actually tinkered with the idea of bidding on the two, but I tuned in at one point and say prices busting $300.00 and just kinda chuckled and mumbled something about people putting away their crack pipes... There is no real way to match a document with a medal UNLESS you get it from the family or individual directly. We're at the whim of the seller to be honest, or not. And believe me - A LOT of these medals and documents that you see sold as pairs are indeed not - they are purchased separately and then put together as such. After watching sales closely for the past two years on multiple auction sites, you get to know what's going on. I'm NOT saying all sellers do this or are dishonest, but some are, no question. So you either trust them or you don't. I don't like dishonest sales though, turns me off to a seller IF I discover they are up to no good. This one however, I would imagine there is a good chance they really are matched - the medals aren't exactly rare, but the documents are not seen often. I suppose the seller could have bought one and waited for the other to set up a sweet deal, but I'd guess not in this case. No way to be sure. These two even out-competed a Boxer rebellion medal (without case) for $425.00 and a document for $395.00!!! Different sellers. YIKES!! And the Nomonhan seller even brought in $336.00 for a cased Capital Rehab. Medal. Way to go!! My hat is off to him. Edited November 1, 2010 by Dieter3
Dieter3 Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 Are these doucments always supposed to be watermarked? I see two different ones on Rich's site - one is for sure watermarked, the other one may simply not be shown. I've got one that is NOT watermarked. The gold orchid crest is also not really gold, does not appear as if it had any gold added to it! Otherwise is certainly seems "old", the expected marks, that old "smell", and it is very curled. Wonder if it is a fake? I'll try to get a photo of it in the near future.
JapanX Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 Come on man! Don't tease us Where are the HQ pictures of this mysterious doc?
Dieter3 Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 No photos yet! I've had a bunch of documents for quite a while now, and they've been boxed up, some of them literally for a few years! Finallly got around to getting them into mylar sleeves and now they are all laying flat under some weight to weaken the curl. I'll get some photos in a week or two when they are more "cooperative".
JapanX Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 I'll get some photos in a week or two when they are more "cooperative". I'll stick around
Dieter3 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) O.K., here it is. Finally! Som no watermarks and the orchid crest lacks the gold finish. It would seem like the gold was never applied, but I'm really not sure. This appears to have been awarded posthumously to a Mr. Kai Yonekichito and presented to oneof his relatives, possibly his wife, a Sumiko Yonekichi. #78809 given on November 25th, 1940. (I don't know how to read the kanji for the Chinese year.) The names and document# appear to be added after the fact in ink, not printed, which would be correct. I also have a 6th Class Golden Kite (yes, eventually I'll get photos!) for the same person that is authentic, so I don't know why this one would be a fake, but interesting that it lacks in certain features. Opinons? Yes, the shape is funny because I seriously cropped the edges to hide the magnets holding the document to the board. Sorry. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2013/post-6375-0-22324300-1363151272.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2013/post-6375-0-11508500-1363151327.jpg Edited March 13, 2013 by Dieter3
JapanX Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 No sweat! This is 100% authentic doc! There are indeed two variations of docs (different manufacturers?) P.S. Please, please post his doc for 6th class kite!!!
Dieter3 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 No sweat! This is 100% authentic doc! There are indeed two variations of docs (different manufacturers?) P.S. Please, please post his doc for 6th class kite!!! Glad to know, thanks! And I will definitely post pics of the 6th Class doc., who knows when, but it will happen!
Dieter3 Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) Finally posted, here it is: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/58252-a-couple-of-golden-kite-documents-5th-and-6th-class/ Somewhat redundant to add this particular reply, but what the heck.... Edited April 21, 2013 by Dieter3
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