Order of the Bath and British Empire -Help needed

[bazsi]

Gents,

This ribbon bar is on a uniform of a Major General. The first two ribbons are CB and CBE or CB and OBE? What do you think? These are 38 mms wide.

Thanks,

Balazs

[Lukasz Gaszewski]

Sorry, no chance to tell the class from the ribbon bar alone, as the British do not use any devices to denote classes of orders (only metal rosettes for multiple awards), just like it is the case in most other countries The only thing that can be said for sure is that the Order of the British Empire must be either the same classs as Order of the Bath (GCB - GCBE, KCB - KCBE, CB - CBE) or lower.

[paddywhack]

would there be a possibliatly of IDing him?2 MIDs 2 orders and he was in the 8th army!has to narrow it down some what!

[Lukasz Gaszewski]

He also had both the Italy and France & Germany stars - another hint.

[bazsi]

Thanks for your help! So the CB-OBE doesn't work, it is at least CB-CBE. Unfortunately the tailor's label has been removed from the tunic, there is no name in it. I have tried a brief search but I haven't got any access to databases so I used only the list of the Wikipedia. Are there any public databases or other information resources where I can search for the name?

Thanks,

Balazs

[Megan]

CB-OBE does work, because the Order of the Bath ribbon is in first place. What would not work is CB-KBE, as he'd then have the Order of the British Empire ribbon first...

[bazsi]

It was my first opinion (CB-OBE), but Lukasz has an opinion that the two order needs to be the similar grade.

I read previously somewhere that the GCBE-KCBE ribbons are 45 mms wide, the CBE-OBE ribbons are 38 mms and the MBE ribbons are 32 mms wide. Is it correct, has any importance of the width of the ribbon?

Thanks,

Balazs

Edited May 19, 2011 by bazsi

[Arthur R]

AFAIK, as far as these two orders are concerned, the ribbon worn on the tunic is always 38mm irrespective of the width of the ribbon worn with the badge. There are then a dozen possible combinations of Bath and British Empire in those two ribbons:

~ GCB GBE or GCB KBE or GCB CBE or GCB OBE or GCB MBE

~ KCB KBE or KCB CBE or KCB OBE or KCB MBE

~ CB CBE or CB OBE or CB MBE

GCB is probably too high for a major-general, but KCB is feasible for that rank. Are there any signs that a star was pinned to the pocket? If not, then perhaps one of the three CB combinations.

[servicepub]

Try this http://orbat.com/site/history/historical/uk/8tharmyatelalamein.html and then chase down the British Generals shown.

[Lukasz Gaszewski]

Please notice that the tunic has a post-1952 ribbon display (EII Coronation Medal). The owner did not have to be a general while serving in Africa in WWII. The Order of the Bath and of British Empire could be awarded after the war as well.

[servicepub]

Please notice that the tunic has a post-1952 ribbon display (EII Coronation Medal). The owner did not have to be a general while serving in Africa in WWII. The Order of the Bath and of British Empire could be awarded after the war as well.

Very true. The MID on his General Service Medal may be the clincher should you find multiple candidates. I would start with the Maj-Generals' listed in the OrBat link and then work my way down to Brigadiers and Colonels. No guarantee that you will be succesful but the research should be enjoyable.

Clive

[bazsi]

Clive, Lukasz,

Thank you for your great help and for the link of the database, I am starting the search. Hopefully I can find something. This is a great and enjoyable task I like these puzzles.

Thare is also a possibility for this ribbon bar is not the last one so it can be an intermeditae stage.

I have checked the tunic, there is no hole for a star on the pocket.

Thanks,

Balazs

Edited May 19, 2011 by bazsi

[James Hoard]

Bazsi,

The Bath and British Empire ribbons appear to be longer than those for the campaign ribbons. Are my eyes misleading me or is that correct?

If so, I cannot imagine that an OBE or MBE would be represented by a ribbon wider than the campaign medal ribbons. Thus, your man is likely to be a CB, CBE.

The higher combinations including KCB and GCB can be forgotten. Although a KCB is relatively common in the rank of Major-General for the Great War, I doubt more than two or three were awarded during WWII (at most). The only one's I recall were in intelligence, not frontline soldiers.

Hope this narrows down your search.

Cheers,

James

[bazsi]

James,

Thanks for your help! The first two ribbons are 38 mms wide, both wider than the others.

Unfortunately I haven't got information about the original owner, but I hope I can narrow down the search.

Cheers,

Balazs