Guest IMHF Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 FRANCE Medal WW1 Lebanon Syria Campaign w/Bar Levant I just picked up this medal a few days ago from a dealer online, I was wondering if anyone can share with me the issue of this medal. I paid $92.00 for it because I am trying to focus on medals and orders French and British that were awarded for service in the war with the Ottomans to give Arab states their independence. I believe that some call it the Mesopotamian era of conflict for the west or just WWI. I would like to hear other fellow collectors information on this French medal and if this piece is original or not. Thank you very much Lorenzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) FRANCE Medal WW1 Lebanon Syria Campaign w/Bar Levant I just picked up this medal a few days ago from a dealer online, I was wondering if anyone can share with me the issue of this medal. I paid $92.00 for it because I am trying to focus on medals and orders French and British that were awarded for service in the war with the Ottomans to give Arab states their independence. I believe that some call it the Mesopotamian era of conflict for the west or just WWI. I would like to hear other fellow collectors information on this French medal and if this piece is original or not. Thank you very much Lorenzo This medal looks perfectly genuine and period, the ribbon and bar included. It was awarded in 1922 to French and local troups engaged in pacification of Syria and Lebannon. France first occupied those two former parts of the Ottaman Empire, later received a mandate from the Society of Nations. The bar is unofficial but was widely used and tolerated. Several other bars were issued for later operations. The medal with a similar bar dated 1941 was awarded to French troups loyal to the Vichy Government who resisted attack from the British and Free French. The price you paid is not outrageous. Best regards Edited May 28, 2011 by Veteran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IMHF Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 This medal looks perfectly genuine and period, the ribbon and bar included. It was awarded in 1922 to French and local troups engaged in pacification of Syria and Lebannon. France first occupied those two former parts of the Ottaman Empire, later received a mandate from the Society of Nations. The bar is unofficial but was widely used and tolerated. Several other bars were issued for later operations. The medal with a similar bar dated 1941 was awarded to French troups loyal to the Vichy Government who resisted attack from the British and Free French. The price you paid is not outrageous. Best regards Veteran Thank you very much for the good news, with all the reproductions out there it is harder to determine if it is original or not. I also picked up a General Service Medal - Iraq Clasp R.A.O.C – to a Cpl Owen, I am feeling kind of iffy on the ribbon. Thank you again for the help and information, I was wondering if you have a list of French Orders and Medals that were awarded for the services occupied parts of the Ottoman Empire and the Mandate. Thank you Lorenzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Veteran Thank you very much for the good news, with all the reproductions out there it is harder to determine if it is original or not. I also picked up a General Service Medal - Iraq Clasp R.A.O.C – to a Cpl Owen, I am feeling kind of iffy on the ribbon. Thank you again for the help and information, I was wondering if you have a list of French Orders and Medals that were awarded for the services occupied parts of the Ottoman Empire and the Mandate. Thank you Lorenzo The whole set of French awards were given for the twenty odd years of their presence in the Near East. More specifically : Merite libanais, Merite syrien, Médaille commémorative Syrie-Cilicie, as well as a series of civil service medals. Regards Veteran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 (edited) As Vétéran says, the price is fine. These are seen on the market all that often. Don't know if you noticed this thread about these medals but it should provide some background. CLICK HERE The medal was conceived after General Castelnau proposed a commemorative medal to the Paris Parliament following the capture of Aïntab in February 1921 during the Franco-Syrian War of 1919-1921. As a footnote, King Faisal of Syria was exiled to Britain and later installed as King of Iraq. Faisal was, of course, the Arab leader played by Anthony Quinn in Lawrence of Arabia. The Arab army against which French forces fought was the same army that had seen off the Ottoman Turks so it was a relatively hard-won victory for the French. The 30 mm medal was exclusively struck in bronze by the Paris Mint but there was a 36 mm variant produced by Arthus-Bertrand. And, of course, J R Gaunt of Birmingham, England produced the above variant for the Free French government-in-exile in London during the War but that is covered in the thread to which I've linked you. The original Syrie-Cicilie Medal, an example of which you have found, was instituted on 18.7.1922 and was initially awarded for the period from 11.11.1918 to 20.10.1921. If Vétéran says the LEVANT clasp was unofficial but tolerated, he is a man to be believed given his vast experience and knowledge of the medals of France. One learns something new every day, which is what makes forums like this great. If I can add a footnote, on the other hand, the LEVANT clasp in bronze signalled participation in operations from 1918 to 1921 whereas there was a silvered version denoting operations in 1925 and 1926. This medal was never intended as a catch-all regional service medal, however. Recipients applying for the medal from 1922 to 1939 had to have participated in one or more specific actions during the two periods in question authorised by a series of twenty-four Republican degrees. Next-of-Kin had to prove the deceased qualified. The medal was then issued by the Vichy regime as the Levant Medal, with the above clasp, while the Gaullist authority in London instituted their own version with no clasp and the words Syrie-Cicilie removed from the reverse. Civilians were eligible from 1932-onwards. So, there you go, Lorenzo. Edited May 29, 2011 by PKeating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IMHF Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 As Vétéran says, the price is fine. These are seen on the market all that often. Don't know if you noticed this thread about these medals but it should provide some background. CLICK HERE The medal was conceived after General Castelnau proposed a commemorative medal to the Paris Parliament following the capture of Aïntab in February 1921 during the Franco-Syrian War of 1919-1921. As a footnote, King Faisal of Syria was exiled to Britain and later installed as King of Iraq. Faisal was, of course, the Arab leader played by Anthony Quinn in Lawrence of Arabia. The Arab army against which French forces fought was the same army that had seen off the Ottoman Turks so it was a relatively hard-won victory for the French. The 30 mm medal was exclusively struck in bronze by the Paris Mint but there was a 36 mm variant produced by Arthus-Bertrand. And, of course, J R Gaunt of Birmingham, England produced the above variant for the Free French government-in-exile in London during the War but that is covered in the thread to which I've linked you. The original Syrie-Cicilie Medal, an example of which you have found, was instituted on 18.7.1922 and was initially awarded for the period from 11.11.1918 to 20.10.1921. If Vétéran says the LEVANT clasp was unofficial but tolerated, he is a man to be believed given his vast experience and knowledge of the medals of France. One learns something new every day, which is what makes forums like this great. If I can add a footnote, on the other hand, the LEVANT clasp in bronze signalled participation in operations from 1918 to 1921 whereas there was a silvered version denoting operations in 1925 and 1926. This medal was never intended as a catch-all regional service medal, however. Recipients applying for the medal from 1922 to 1939 had to have participated in one or more specific actions during the two periods in question authorised by a series of twenty-four Republican degrees. Next-of-Kin had to prove the deceased qualified. The medal was then issued by the Vichy regime as the Levant Medal, with the above clasp, while the Gaullist authority in London instituted their own version with no clasp and the words Syrie-Cicilie removed from the reverse. Civilians were eligible from 1932-onwards. So, there you go, Lorenzo. Thank you very much for all the wonderful information I went ahead and bought 2 more pieces, I will be posting them here soon. Thank you Lorenzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IMHF Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Here is another medal I bought this one is silver and is marked with the “1” on the lower right side of the medal. I was told that the “1” was equivalent to “900” marked silver; it has 2 clasps on the ribbon one being for “MAROC” and the other “OUDJDA. If you look at the reverse side it has its original mounting pin when issued from the case of issue. I am very happy with this medal although it cost me $114.00; which a little more then I paid for the bronze issue. I would really like to learn more about the medal and I am looking for an original Photo or postcard print of that era to put in a display with the 3 medals I bought. I will post the 3rd medal in the next post for better view of the image. Thank you very much for viewing Lorenzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IMHF Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Here is the other one I bought this Silver medal cost me $93.00 same price as I paid for the Bronze. This Silver medal is marked with the “1” as well and is in very aged condition for which I like about it. It has only one clasp which is that of the “MORAC” I purchased all 3 medals from a dealer out of Greece and I am very happy with all 3 medals. Thank you for viewing Lorenzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IMHF Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Thank you very much for all the wonderful information I went ahead and bought 2 more pieces, I will be posting them here soon. Thank you Lorenzo Out of all 3 of the medals in my collection none of them look like the 2 issues you have presented in the image. I now have to find me both of the issues of medals for my collection, If you have any spares I would be happy to take them off your hands if the price is right. Thank you Lorenzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) Out of all 3 of the medals in my collection none of them look like the 2 issues you have presented in the image. I now have to find me both of the issues of medals for my collection, If you have any spares I would be happy to take them off your hands if the price is right. Thank you Lorenzo You have some very straighforward looking medals. Prices are hard to pin down. Why don't you watch these medals on the french eBay? They come up quite regularly and you could get first hand information about their current market values. In fact, that is just what I do. Regards Veteran Edited May 31, 2011 by Veteran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IMHF Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 You have some very straighforward looking medals. Prices are hard to pin down. Why don't you watch these medals on the french eBay? They come up quite regularly and you could get first hand information about their current market values. In fact, that is just what I do. Regards Veteran I put them all together and they look great thank you for the help!! Lorenzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Hello Lorenzo Very nice looking display you have there. Congratulations. The MAROC commemorative medal was awarded with one or several of four bars : CASABLANCA - OUDJA - HAUT-GUIR - MAROC according to the areas where the men had been employed I was mistaken about your SYRIE-CILICIE medal. A bronze LEVANT clasp was tardily officially authorised in 1934 and again in 1939 for men who had garrisoned Zelaf and Saba-Biar in 1933 as well as for those who had been involved in the police operations in the Kurd-Dagh between March 1939 and June 1939. Two rather confidential instances. This appeared when I looked up the medal in the official orders. But it also true that before 1933, some of the men who had earned the medal wore a LEVANT clasp wich was not truly official. So your medal with the clasp may very well be completly genuine. I am happy you did not sell it in dispair... Best regards Veteran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobW Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 To all, To add to the mix here is my example. It doesn't have the BR mark and cornucopia, on the reverse right side underneath the cannon, as per the Paris Mint examples. It is marked BRONZE with a small hallmark on the rim. Regards, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 That's all right. It is a perfectly legal and normally produced commercial medal. Possibly Arthus-Bertrand or Delande (the diamond shaped hallmark with BRONZE should tell). The Paris Mint had no monopoly on such awards. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IMHF Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 To all, To add to the mix here is my example. It doesn't have the BR mark and cornucopia, on the reverse right side underneath the cannon, as per the Paris Mint examples. It is marked BRONZE with a small hallmark on the rim. Regards, Rob That is a very nice example; thank you for sharing your images. Lorenzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Commercially (but quite lawfully) produced medal. The small hallmark is the manufacrurer"s. Just a variation, no incidence on value.. We all like them very much. Regards Veteran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vernon_kell Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Lorenzo, If you let me know the full naming on your General Service Medal with Iraq Clasp I will see if I can track down Cpl Owen of the R.A.O.C. for you. I need full number and initial of his name please. R.A.O.C. is of course The Royal Army Ordinance Corps. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydr Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 very nice medal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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