What is this uniform?

[Chris Boonzaier]

I suspect Colonial, maybe Boxer Rebellion? Or I may be tooooootally wrong.

Notice the one cockade.

The Photo was taken in San Francisco.

I also thought theater, but the Spiess way of carrying the book makes me doubt that...

[Chris Boonzaier]

And another strange one.... check out the left sleeves of the men flanking the Clergyman???

[Mike Dwyer]

I suspect Colonial, maybe Boxer Rebellion? Or I may be tooooootally wrong.

Notice the one cockade.

The Photo was taken in San Francisco.

I also thought theater, but the Spiess way of carrying the book makes me doubt that...

Not sure, Chris, but my guess would be, if he's German, it's pre-1897 when the Reichs-Kokarde was added. With the cross belt, my first thought is he might be a dragoon.

[Claudius]

And another strange one.... check out the left sleeves of the men flanking the Clergyman???

I don't think those are strange left sleeves. On both men I think I think I can see the top edge of what would be an arm band. I think those are arm bands, in the same color, or at least in a color that shows up as the same color as the uniform. If there are any markings on them, it is facing away from the camera.

[Chip]

Good eye Claudius! That's exactly what they are. Perhaps they are yellow and that is why they appear so dark. I have one yellow imperial armband in my collection, so they did use it. I even think there was an armband for clergy helpers that was purple!

Chip

Edited July 1, 2011 by Chip

[Chris Boonzaier]

I think he nailed it.... closer examonation of the photo shows that is probably right...

Now... any idea for the first guy? And what he is doing in the USA?

[TS Allen]

Hey Chris,

While one will occasionally see images of foreign soldiers taken in the United States, the chances of a German soldier ending up in San Francisco are incredibly low. While the uniform wouldn't be correct for the "Black Hussars," a San Francisco militia unit at the time, or any other militia units I'm aware of, I beleive this image is of an American militiaman.

http://www.militarymuseum.org/BlackHussars.html

http://www.militarymuseum.org/SacramentoHussars.html

Especially with the repeated references to equipment being "procured in New York," I suspect these uniforms were from Bannerman's famous surplus company, which undoubtedly occasionally sold European uniforms (or replicas thereof). I picked up at 1927 Bannerman's catalog from the library to take a look. (You would think the National Archives repository, focused on military items, located only miles from Bannerman's Island, would have all of th eBannerman's catalogs, but they just aren't here. I think it may be because Bannerman's was always a militia and Guard supplier, and the library staff here disliked Bannerman as much as the rest of the staff must have.)

TTFN,

~TS

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

I dont discount any possibility, but even if they used German Style uniforms.... the undone buttons with the notebook slipped over the heart seems to be a totally German tradition for NCOs?

Best

Chris

[AOK4]

Good eye Claudius! That's exactly what they are. Perhaps they are yellow and that is why they appear so dark. I have one yellow imperial armband in my collection, so they did use it. I even think there was an armband for clergy helpers that was purple!

Chip

A yellow armband was worn by Zivilarbeiter, but not by German soldiers. I think a purple one for clergy helpers may be more probable (if they existed, I haven't read anything about these yet).