JapanX Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Exactly because of economical upturn in the first half of 50s (I think this is one of the factors) Japan decided to restore its awarding system. Here is restoration chronology. 18 September 1953 Merit Medals were restored. 22 January 1955 two new Merit Medals (yellow and purple ribbon) were introduced. 1 April 1956 golden RC order and golden RC medal were introduced. 12 June 1963 Sacred Treasure and Rising Sun orders were restored.
JapanX Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) So the order itself doesn’t give us any useful information for its accurate attribution (the only thing for sure – it is after 1956 piece). All we have is the box. Is it early? Probably. Is it late? Probably. Is it legit? Probably. Is it handmade by recipient/collector/dealer? Probably. Is it made by the private workshop in some “edición limitada” fashion? Probably. Of course this box may be (or may not be) “late-after-war-circa1956-not-handmade-but-serial-made-piece”. I can live with that. :) Edited October 3, 2011 by JapanX
Dieter3 Posted October 4, 2011 Author Posted October 4, 2011 The quality of many articles produced in the mediate post-war period in Japan was not the highest. This carried even into the 60s and 70s when some Japanese cars were being imported into the U.S. - they were noted for their rather poor quality. Of course this improved! But many families were extremely hard up for many years following the war - hence - not peaches and cream - times were tough, I know first-hand from relatives about this period, both Japanese in-laws as well as blood relatives visiting Japan in the 50s. The one thing we DO know is that this pre-dates 1956, it is NOT post-1956. An early box it is not - earlier boxes were of lacquer or paulownia wood, this one is not, a portion of it is definitely Bakelite. Late it is not - late cases are very obvious, the black ones with the pebbled exterior, some sort of coating over a metal shell. Handmade by an individual? Probably not. Made by a shop? Quite possible. You must take into account the features of this medal as compared to other medals that are encountered, not only meritorious awards! Yes, a bit of guessing is involved, but I'd call it at least semi-educated.... It is a bit of a mystery - but that's what makes this fun!!
JapanX Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) It is a bit of a mystery - but that's what makes this fun!! Completely agree my friend. The one thing we DO know is that this pre-dates 1956, it is NOT post-1956. An early box it is not - earlier boxes were of lacquer or paulownia wood, this one is not, a portion of it is definitely Bakelite. Late it is not - late cases are very obvious, the black ones with the pebbled exterior, some sort of coating over a metal shell. So from what period is it then? Pre 1956? Post 1945? Somewhere between 1941-1945? My cats and I ... We`re well and truly lost here . I don`t think that between 1945 and 1956 there were any RC orders awarded. So I suspect that you will choose "actual war-era award" variant. Good choice! But I think your box is more (at least not less) "labor-consuming" and "material-consuming" piece compared with usual pre-war pieces. Don`t you think it`s kinda strange for "late war conditions". Of course this improved! But many families were extremely hard up for many years following the war - hence - not peaches and cream - times were tough, I know first-hand from relatives about this period, both Japanese in-laws as well as blood relatives visiting Japan in the 50s. We are talking about government prestigious awards here and not about family living standarts. ;) Edited October 5, 2011 by JapanX
JapanX Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Of course this box may be (or may not be) “actual-war-circa-1942-1945-not-handmade-but-serial-made-piece”. I can live with that too. :)
Dieter3 Posted October 5, 2011 Author Posted October 5, 2011 No, but my point being that government or civilian situation - the labor and resource situation was an issue (impacting quality and so on across the board). I don't know if Red Cross medals were awarded or not during the occupation - as they were not government awards. I'm sure literature will have this information but I haven't searched for this. Unfortunately, all of the Red Cross employees/volunteers that I have dealt with simply have no clue whatsoever about medals, so I must rely on literature, most of which I don't have!! Only bits and pieces. Plus - times were very hard for civilians and these awards took considerable cost or contribution - and I think many people didn't have the money to contribute - so there are very few of these awards as a result. Another theory.....too many theories, huh? Well, I just don't know on the box as far as materials are concerned - I'm guessing it was easy to make a simple mold for the Bakelite and then finishing it would not be too hard along the exposed surfaces. I think it would be easier than making the lacquer box since it was wood of many pieces that had to be precision cut, assembled, prepared, and then lacquered and finished with nicer hardware. It seems more skill and time would be needed to make the lacquerware case and perhaps these artisans were employed to work in weapons factories or simply abandoned their practices altogether, perhaps they were destroyed because of bombing, who knows? I think maybe we will simply never know. But we must define "war-era" - what would you say? I think we all agree it would be World War II - but what years specifically? From the China Incident to 1945? Post-Pearl Harbor? I think I agree with you - when things started to really turn badly for the Japanese 1942-1945 would certainly be a possibility of the time frame for this piece, but I might extend that up to say 1950.
JapanX Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Another theory.....too many theories, huh? Cheers mate Plus - times were very hard for civilians and these awards took considerable cost or contribution - and I think many people didn't have the money to contribute - so there are very few of these awards as a result. Or donate your blood more than 100 times and you`ll get your silver cross ;)
Dieter3 Posted October 6, 2011 Author Posted October 6, 2011 Actually, yes!! Now, I don't how many special contributions or meritorious acts a person must make or do, but this was also a way to receive the honor, other than pure financial contribution. Unfortunately, I have no first hand information of exactly what any of these things might have been!
JapanX Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 Actually, yes!! Now, I don't how many special contributions or meritorious acts a person must make or do, but this was also a way to receive the honor, other than pure financial contribution. Unfortunately, I have no first hand information of exactly what any of these things might have been! Blood donation for 100+ times was and is "one of this things" for sure. I wonder how many blood donations you shoud make to get the gold order? And does it humanly possible at all? :lol:
JapanX Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) I'd do it!! First of all - you are Kamikadze! And in the second - here comes legit box with same order as yours (only gold class) and with same rosette and attachment. Check this out. Edited October 13, 2011 by JapanX
JapanX Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) That is why I was (and am ) so skeptical about your box. Cheers, Nick Edited October 13, 2011 by JapanX
Dieter3 Posted October 14, 2011 Author Posted October 14, 2011 Got one of those: And they are more different - this gold one would of course be post-1956 (I'm guessing 1960s) - I believe these to be transitional pieces between the original Order of Merit that started the thread and what finally became the modern pieces we know - you will also find these lacquer-cased medals with the kanji for silver that distinguish them from the former "Order of Merit" that had no distinction of silver or gold - why we know it at least predates 1956 - but by how much - that is the mystery!
JapanX Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 (edited) And they are more different - this gold one would of course be post-1956 (I'm guessing 1960s) - I believe these to be transitional pieces between the original Order of Merit that started the thread and what finally became the modern pieces we know - you will also find these lacquer-cased medals with the kanji for silver that distinguish them from the former "Order of Merit" that had no distinction of silver or gold - why we know it at least predates 1956 - but by how much - that is the mystery! Of course they are By the box This wonder-box ... Edited October 15, 2011 by JapanX
JapanX Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Just to keep my mate Dieter busy and RC ball rolling... What will be your diagnosis Doc?
Dieter3 Posted October 17, 2011 Author Posted October 17, 2011 Looks like a more modern piece, post-war, but when specifically? Not sure, but I'd wager it was not the most recently made version. O.K., surprise me!!! :lol:
JapanX Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) I think this piece belongs to 1970-1980 (this is for sure) or even 1990s. Check this box. P.S. You simply can't wager on RC orders. Way too risky!!! :lol: Edited October 17, 2011 by JapanX
Dieter3 Posted October 17, 2011 Author Posted October 17, 2011 Well, I was right - it was a more modern piece, obviously post-war, but I might have lost that wager on not being the most recent type! Did this come with a rosette, or pin? This is probably of the most recent style of manufacture, could very well be into the 90s.
Dieter3 Posted October 17, 2011 Author Posted October 17, 2011 Yep, that'd be the most recent type. These cases with the bolder fonts seem to always have the pin, and the narrower fonts came with classic rosettes, or so have been my observations!! I'm looking for one like yours, but it must have the pin in the original plastic bag, and I'm hoping for the original, marked box too! Red Cross medals are my crack. :lol:
Dieter3 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Posted October 23, 2011 Here's what I believe is a piece dating to late 20s, maybe early 30s - very common to see this "ス" hallmark associated with rosettes in this time period, not only red cross, but other orders as well. Though the medals themselves seem to lack any hallmarks. What exactly does that mean? No idea, but I'd guess it was a specific maker contracted out by perhaps the Japan Mint and the Red Cross to make them. Nick - as compared to the "mystery" medal, you can see the obvious difference being the safety pin attachment - that I contend was phased out during the war and thereafter - to be brought back at some point. One thing that really stood out was how substantial the medal itself is - it's thicker and heavier than most. Very noticeable. I have to do some measuring.
JapanX Posted October 24, 2011 Posted October 24, 2011 Nick - as compared to the "mystery" medal, you can see the obvious difference being the safety pin attachment - that I contend was phased out during the war and thereafter - to be brought back at some point. One thing that really stood out was how substantial the medal itself is - it's thicker and heavier than most. Very noticeable. I have to do some measuring. What? Again? Come on mate! You can't be serious (actually you are) I've never called this medal "mystery medal". Nothing mystical about it. The piece was made between 1930-1960. That's it. We don't have anything for more precise attribution. Except... The BOX. Remember the box? This was a real deal. For you it was "The case seems to be made of Bakelite like those postwar Rising Suns and Sacred Treasure cases, but with a lot more heft. The hinge is a pin running through the back of the case, not like the lacquered cases. I believe it is of aluminum. Different style hasp, that was used on some later awards (post-1956) - I'm only guessing, but this might be an actual war-era award, but must be pre-1956 before the Red Cross adopted separate silver and gold awards around that time." And the box is still wonder-mystical-box. P.S. Thanks for marked rosette photo mate! Nice specimen you've got! Congrats!
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