Guess the Force!

[Polsa999]

I am a collector of police photographs, usually of the Met Police and the various railway police. My interest is mainly pre 1930's.

The first photo is of a scene with police officers in it and I wondered if any one can identify the Force and the location and perhaps even the event? After some reasearch I believe that I know the answer to this one.

The second one is a formal group photo of officers from a Force that I am unsure of....any ideas.

There are no prizes and in any case they are just interesting historical photo's in their own right.

Regards

Steve

[Adrob]

Steve, is it possible to send the photos on a larger resolution maybe I can see the badges better !!

[Polsa999]

Hi Adrob

Although I did try, there is a limit on the size of a file which can be uploaded. I compressed the images so that they could be uploaded...is there a better way of doing this? If you right click on the photo it can be saved and then later opened to be viewed...this may work.

Thanks

Steve

[Mervyn Mitton]

I've taken them up to 400 - just gets 'blurry'. The first one has a whole forest springing out of the pavement -

an official visit of some sort. I would have thought about 1910 ?

The second one looks Met. with the Rose top helmet - however, I don't think it is - the Helmet Plate doessn't look big enough.

A good post - and I hope we can look forward to seeing more old pictures in the future. Mervyn

ps. Howabout a short comp. - on this Forum. You put together about 25 photos for identification and I'll give a small prize to the

person you judge to have most correct answers ?

[Polsa999]

Hi Mervyn

Sounds good to me re the competition.....must ensure that they are the ones for which I have all the answers....it may have to wait until I can sort out how to upload within the file limits set for the site and still allow them to be seen clearly. Any suggestions.

When it happens, I suggest we ask for Force and for period give or take 10 years?

Steve

[Polsa999]

If it helps...the helmet plates on the officers in both pictures do not have a crown...they are wreaths.....the centre is not quite discernable, however in the group photograph the Inspectors cap badge is a repeat of the collar badges on each officer. It looks like 3 oblongs coming from a hub....

Mervyn is very close to the date for the first photo, the scene with officers in it. Look at the flags and bunting...that may begin to provide a few more clues!

Steve

[Mervyn Mitton]

Then it has to be 1911 - George 5th. Coronation. But, I can't see the reason for a procession under a railway bridge ?

Let's hope some one else can work it out.

When you are ready to go ahead with a Comp. let me know - we can always ask Nick to relax the amount of picture space for you.

However, I hope you realise that when you click on the small picture - it will enlarge to the size you have trimmed it for ?

Tell us a little about yourself - we're a nosy bunch. Do you have Police connections - or, is it a hobby ? Mervyn

[NickLangley]

In those days any royal visit would have seen the bunting out - not just for a Coronation. Is their any significance in the Prince of Wales's feathers between the flags? The foliage suggests that this a very temporary arrangement so perhaps a royal using a railway station during a visit.

As for the second photo the backdrop suggests railway arches which would be odd for a municipal force. So perhaps more railway police constables?

[Polsa999]

I am still trying to upload better quality photo's....so far no luck.

Getting close Nick.....I think that Mervyn was close to the date....and that it is a railway station.....Queen Victoria enjoyed using the Royal Train as did her son and grandson.....The title Prince of Wales was given to the male heir to the throne and the feathers may denote the presence of that person...did you notice the Naval Ensign? Looking at the clothes of the bystanders.....mens and womans hats indicate the 1910 to 1920 era...the absence of medals indicate that no war had recently been fought........

The second photo certainly could indicate a railway background, there are metal lines in the cobbles.....but everything is too clean for railway arches or engine sheds...could it be tramlines?

Another couple of days or so will give you all more time and I will try the upload again....can any one help?

Steve

[Polsa999]

I have tried again!

[NickLangley]

I'm not convinced by the tram theory for picture #2. The brickwork is just too substantial for a tram shed and why have arches? I would say that those are lines for running rail wagons into more secure storage facilities. So definitely railway police of some description.

[Polsa999]

Thanks Nick........you are correct photo number 2 is a group photo of a detachment of the North Eastern Railway Police taken obviously pre 1914, probably between 1905 and 1914....neat moustaches on most of the young men one or two without. Beards were popular generally up to the turn of the 19th century and many older men still continued to wear them. I think that the thought that the sheds were used for secure storage of wagons is probably correct. One wonders the reason for the photo which will require further research....two have 22 officers and an inspector all together would indicate a significant group - possibly even an entire establishment of police at one major railway station.

The first photograph was taken at Ashton under Lyne Railway Station in Lancashire in July 1913 during a visit by George V and Queen Mary, it may be that the Prince of Wales was with them or was visiting elsewhere......the police are all Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway police.

Thanks for your input.

To answer Mervyns request for some information about me....I am a retired BTP/Met officer, having started in the BTP in 1970 serving always in London and then the last few years util 2001 as an Inspector in the Met (Specialist Operations).

Regards

Steve

[NickLangley]

The coat of arms that are just about visible on the bridge are those of the township of Audenshaw which, technically, was not part of the borough of Ashton-under-Lyne.

As for the POW feathers they probably are emblematic of Cheshire of which Audenshaw was, until 1974, a part of.

Edited February 8, 2012 by NickLangley

[Polsa999]

Thanks Nick.....are you able to supply a reference to the information, especially regarding the coat of arms as all my information suggest that the Arms were not given until 1950 also that under the Local Government Act 1894 the area became the Audenshaw Urban District, a local government district in the Ashton-under-Lyne Poor Law Union and the administrative county of Lancashire.

The information regarding which railway station it was, was provided by the secretary of the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway Society who also told me that the National Railway Museum had a total of 3 photo's for the visit including the one I have.

The feathers are definately relating to the PoW, I checked his web site and I also had the advantage of re examining the original photo......the ones I uploaded are not brilliant.

But thanks once again for your views they stimulated me to research a bit further.. Steve

[Mervyn Mitton]

Good questions and interesting background. Steve - why does your Avatar remind me of the photo badges ?

Pleased to learn a little of your background - let me know when you're ready for a small comp.? Mervyn

[Polsa999]

Hi Mervyn

The badge I use is of the Great Western Railway police prior to them receiving the Kings crown to top it, most railway police forces did not receive the right to wear the crown until after the first amalgamations of the railway companies in 1922. This was probably due to some commercial or political considerations. Pay parity, conditions of service etc.

If you have access to my email address then make contact that way and we can discuss the competition. To make use of 20 photographs is not a problem for me, but bandwidth may be the issue because they need to be of high resolution in order to make them 'seeable'. Any suggestions on the best way to upload them because currently I can probably only place two photo's per post?

All the best

Steve

[NickLangley]

I need to get some new reading glasses. On closer inspection the coat of arms on the original photo are not those of Audenshaw.

Mea culpa!

[Polsa999]

No problems Nick....I know the feeling..my arms are not long enough these days to allow me to focus.....also the pics are not brilliant....Best wishes

[milice]

Polsa999, your avatar is of the Great Central Railway police with the motto of ' forward' in the middle. The GCR amalgamated into the LNER who kept the motto. GWR police always had a crown on the HP. LIke the Great Eastern Railway police for their duties assisting Queen Victoria who regularly travelled to Sandringham.

[Polsa999]

Thanks Milice - of course you are absolutely correct......age sometimes has a strange effect on ones mind. Conveyance of Queen Victoria to Windsor and Sandringham certainly earnt the right to wear the Crown. Thanks again for pointing out my mistake. Steve

[Polsa999]

Hi Guys

Sorry have not been around for a few weeks...have been a bit poorly...however hope to upload some competition photos in the near future, I am sure that Mervyn will sort out a prize!!

[Polsa999]

Guess The Force!

These are images of two brothers, George and Edward Hird. Both joined the police service but in two different Forces. Your task is to identify the decade and the forces.

Good Luck

Steve

[Mervyn Mitton]

Steve - very sorry to hear you have been unwell - trust that things are now sorted ?

Is this a general teaser - or, are you starting the short pictorial competition ? I will certainly find a few prizes to make-it interesting.

Mervyn

[Polsa999]

Hi Mervyn

This is the starter for the competition and then put up around another 6 to 8 images for the competition in the next few days...probably all at the same time. Is that OK?

Health OK at the moment thanks.

Best wishes

Steve

Edited May 3, 2012 by Polsa999

[Polsa999]

These are the next photo's for Guess the Force, enjoy.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2012/post-13074-0-52117600-1337714863.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2012/post-13074-0-00686400-1337714899.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2012/post-13074-0-34295400-1337714922.jpg