JapanX Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Complete 2nd Class Set. Sash Badge, 73 mm, silver gilt, French import hallmark (notorious swan ), silver gilt, enameled, with suspension ring and original sash, numbered 652. Edited February 28, 2012 by JapanX
JapanX Posted February 28, 2012 Author Posted February 28, 2012 Breast Star, 90 mm, silver gilt, French import hallmark (swan), brilliant cut rays, superimposed parts silver gilt, enameled, reverse with long vertical tapered pin, numbered 652.
JapanX Posted February 28, 2012 Author Posted February 28, 2012 Original case of issue with Nationalist China coat of arms on the lid, plus miniature and lapel hole rosette.
JapanX Posted February 28, 2012 Author Posted February 28, 2012 Super nice set! Looks like Arthus Bertrand work to me...
drclaw Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Ah, I was wondering where this set ended up A very nice set and the price was not unreasonable too!
JapanX Posted February 28, 2012 Author Posted February 28, 2012 Ah, I was wondering where this set ended up A very nice set and the price was not unreasonable too! I wish mate But back then I should choose between extra rare Common Glory order and this beautiful 2nd class set... Sad story :lol:
hc8604 Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Post-1950 Taiwan period? I have seen this from somewhere before...
jcwater Posted February 29, 2012 Posted February 29, 2012 Post-1950 Taiwan period? I have seen this from somewhere before... no 1950~ it`s 1980....
drclaw Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 This was recently sold by Galerie Numismatique for 4800 euros. The French silver import Swan mark was used from 1893 up to around 1970. So it wouldn't be Arthus Bertrand (Paris) since the mark was only used on imported items. It would also make it pre-1970.
JapanX Posted March 1, 2012 Author Posted March 1, 2012 This was recently sold by Galerie Numismatique for 4800 euros. The French silver import Swan mark was used from 1893 up to around 1970. So it wouldn't be Arthus Bertrand (Paris) since the mark was only used on imported items. It would also make it pre-1970. I agree that this set most probably came from late 60s or early 70s... Although we don't know for a fact that this mark was indeed in use only and only during this time period that you mentioned But maybe jcwater has some info about brilliant stars? Maybe his estimate was based on the actual number of award?! Maybe he has some kind time table? As for French/no-French work... Reverses would be really helpful... Cheers, Nick
hc8604 Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 The government could have ordered many medals and awarded these later on. The only way to check the date is to ask if there are still records of it or if the certificate still exist. I have not see any published source on serial numbers for these medals.
jcwater Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 请谁帮我翻译成英文 景星勋章 41年2月2号设立～以取代以前的采玉勋章 41年～46年是印铸局版本 46年～49年是府厂版本 1949～1980～在台湾一直发的库存章和带去台湾的府厂零件组装～ 1980年代以前台湾都没有生产过绝大部分勋章～在1980开始生产勋章的时候～把多数勋章的3等无绶大胸章改为正章副章大绶版本 所以我认为帖子里的应该是80年代以后的台湾版景星～
hc8604 Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 jcwater messaged me to help him to write it out and basically said that he has never seen or heard of a French version of this medal. I told him that you guys were discussing that it was French made and he did not see that part. There were only three versions made as he said above. First two were from the mainland and the 3rd one is on Taiwan. From 1949 to 1980, Taiwan had enough medals made before 1949 to distribute. Not until 1970s they started to make the medals. This is true since I have a 1960s period awarded Cloud and Banner made before 1949, refurbished and awarded in a wooden box and newer type ribbon bar. I don't see a reason why Taiwan would have somebody else make the medals for them since they should have the ability to make their own medals. As jcwater said, he has not heard of any medals being made in France.
JapanX Posted March 2, 2012 Author Posted March 2, 2012 I don't see a reason why Taiwan would have somebody else make the medals for them since they should have the ability to make their own medals. As jcwater said, he has not heard of any medals being made in France. Hi hc8604! Possible reasons for manufacturing abroad? Maybe quality? The typical Taiwan quality we see in the numerous "inspired-by-American-awarding-system" modern medals. All these naval brilliance medals, marin corps medals ... Let's say their quality is not the highest ... And box appearance - very French-looking box interior and skin-plating. But then again the clasp of the box is typical for Chinese orders and there is no French maker mark inside the box (what is kinda strange, if this box was made by French maker). And we have French import mark on the reverse of the order. And indeed Taiwan is not Zaire and could manufacture it's own orders.... So maybe I shouldn't use the noun "French" in the name of this thread Regards, Nick
JapanX Posted March 2, 2012 Author Posted March 2, 2012 I have not see any published source on serial numbers for these medals. Same here Do you have any info about current statutes of the orders (or old ones for that matter ) Or info about regulations for all these numerous fancy medals?
jcwater Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Same here Do you have any info about current statutes of the orders (or old ones for that matter ) Or info about regulations for all these numerous fancy medals? Chinese order made in France ? yes~see here~My Order of GOLDEN GRAIN. But I don`t know Which manufacturers
drclaw Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Thanks JC and HC, that's pretty interesting about pre-1949 medals still being issued decades later from old stocks. I knew that when the Nationalists fled to Taiwan they took crates and crates of antique treasures and bullion. But silver medals could also fit into that category To clarify again, the Swan mark on this particular Order of the Brilliant Star DOES NOT mean it was made in France. It only means it was IMPORTED into France anytime before around 1970. JC - I can't read the mark on the Golden Grain. Could it be a Japanese Mint mark? It looks like Kanji.
hc8604 Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Hi hc8604! Possible reasons for manufacturing abroad? Maybe quality? The typical Taiwan quality we see in the numerous "inspired-by-American-awarding-system" modern medals. All these naval brilliance medals, marin corps medals ... Let's say their quality is not the highest ... And box appearance - very French-looking box interior and skin-plating. Hi Nick, The high ranking awards were nicer than the common awards. The common ones were just crappy, aluminum and painted. Even the common American medals are not that nice (quality wise), unless it mostly the better ranking ones. The box is similar to the 9th grade Brilliant Star that was awarded to my uncle in 1973. Today, some of the common medals are better made now with glass enamel instead of painted on I believe... some are actually silver made too. Thanks JC and HC, that's pretty interesting about pre-1949 medals still being issued decades later from old stocks. I knew that when the Nationalists fled to Taiwan they took crates and crates of antique treasures and bullion. But silver medals could also fit into that category To clarify again, the Swan mark on this particular Order of the Brilliant Star DOES NOT mean it was made in France. It only means it was IMPORTED into France anytime before around 1970. Silver is still silver and they didn't want the communists to get any of it. So, it was not made in France then... but just an stamp placed there by customs? Then this medal was found in France and awarded by Taiwan to a French official then.
JapanX Posted March 3, 2012 Author Posted March 3, 2012 The high ranking awards were nicer than the common awards. The common ones were just crappy, aluminum and painted. Even the common American medals are not that nice (quality wise), unless it mostly the better ranking ones. Exactly! Terrible quality! The box is similar to the 9th grade Brilliant Star that was awarded to my uncle in 1973. Today, some of the common medals are better made now with glass enamel instead of painted on I believe... some are actually silver made too. That settles it. Thanks! Nick P.S. Is it possible for you to tell the number of award (yours Uncle 1973 9th class b.s.)?
hc8604 Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Him in the award ceremony; first one in the top picture and him getting pinned with the medal in bottom Edited March 5, 2012 by hc8604
hc8604 Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 The medal is very tarnished, used to be gold now more black color. No cracks in the enamel, but a small chip in one of the rays. Also comes with the mini.
hc8604 Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Also, good picture to show with mini and full size in the box. Silk lining is stained, but I guess the humidity over there does not help in keeping the box and medal in good condition. Edited March 5, 2012 by hc8604
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