Royal Oak Sinking RNR Diver's Medal Group

[jeffskea]

Hello,

Just picked this set up. A nice group to 9966 Engineman J. McIver Thorn, RNR who was said to have been one of the initial divers sent down to investigate the Royal Oak after its tragic sinking at Scapa Flow in 1939. I have confirmed his RNR LS&GC in the medal roll for 14 June 1945 while attached to the Minesweeping Base Ship Miranda, Motor Minesweeper 1020, out of Yarmouth.

The set came from a dealer in Scotland who received it direct from the family, I've sent for his service record so hopefully that will verify the story of his diving on the Royal Oak.

I'm beginning to find single campaign star groups very intriguing, especially the Atlantic Star. It was awarded alone if the recipient served operationally only during the last six months of the War and had not previously qualified for the 1939-45 Star. This would fit with Engineman Thorn's service if he was stationed in Scapa Flow for the majority of the War, then served aboard Motor Minesweepers in the North Sea in 1945.

Quite fascinating and looking forward to his service record.

Jeff

[Brett Hendey]

Hi Jeff

A great medal group! I used to collect RN medals, but gave up because of the difficulty in researching post-WWI groups. I regret it when I see a group like Thorn's.

Regards

Brett

[jeffskea]

Thanks Brett,

Yes it is a shame post WW1 RN is so difficult to research, thankfully Thorn was RNR as I discovered records are available for ratings in that service from 1860-1955! I requested his record from the National Archives through the Naval Historical Collectors Research Association so I'm anxiously waiting to hear from them.

Jeff

[jeffskea]

Good day,

Just an update on this interesting group, I found Engineman Thorn's RNR service record at the National Archives online, it covers from 1935 to the end of the War and his full list of vessels served on. Going through it now, he was on trawlers and minesweepers with the RNPS for the entire War beginning in 1939 right to the end. There is no mention of him being a diver or doing any salvage work on the Royal Oak however he was a W/A/Eng on HMS Olive based out of the depot ship HMS Prosperine at Lyness, Scapa Flow from April of 1940 to April of 1941.

As I'm going through his service record it seems very likely to me that he would have qualified for the 1939-45 Star as well for his service which looks to have been entirely in UK Homewaters. I believe his service on HMS Olive alone would have given him the 12 month requirement to be entitled to both the 1939-45 and Atlantic Stars. He also served on numerous trawlers/MMS well before the last six months of the War so I doubt his Altantic Star was his only entitlement. If any one has more informaiton regarding campaign star entitlement to RNPS groups that would be great.

Jeff

[peter monahan]

Sounds like you need to round to the dealer, or perhaps the family, upturn them and shake till the lost star drops out! Families are notorious for losing bits of groups, or even conflating groups to separate recipients. sadly some dealers aren't much better, especially the Jackdaw Brigade, who grab anything military and shiny and slap ridiculous prices on it.

Good luck with further research. I would think anyone serving through War Two on trawlers and minesweepers must have had an 'interesting' war, even if he never set foot on a capital ship.

[jeffskea]

I agree, fortunately the dealer obtained them directly from the family who are still living in Aberdeen where Engineman Thorn came from, so there may be a chance they still have his other Star and possibly his RNPS Silver Badge! Interestingly though there is no mention of the Badge being awarded on his service record, but I think it is almost certain he would have recevied one as he spent the entire five years of the War with the Patrol Service and served on vessels all around the UK, from Scapa Flow to Lowestoft and Birkenhead to Ardrossan. A long ardurous job in Home Waters and interesting story for sure so far.

[jeffskea]

Hello, I am almost finished compiling my research together for Engineman Thorn, digging for information on each shore base he was posted to and each vessel he served on has been very interesting as his War service began in August 1939 and carried on right to the end and further until November 1945 with it seems a considerable time at sea.

I just had one question regarding a remark on his RNR service record and I wonder if anyone else has encountered the same. In the remarks column there are two lines, one says "1st G.C.B. granted 26th August 1942" which I understand is his Good Conduct Badge.

The other line states, "C.S.B. 1 due but not issued." Would anyone have an idea what this is referring to? Thank you.

Jeff

[Odulf]

These groups are undervalued, but on the other hand, there are so many other groups up for sale... I have had a goup to a Marine survivor of the incident, and (afterwards) a Marine o/b the Royal Yacht, where he's got his RNLSGM, it made little money. So, it is all down to the feeble market. Perhaps in a century, but we as custodians of these groups, won't see that.

[azyeoman]

As a diver, I've always thought it would be nice to collect groups to divers. It'll be interesting to see what else you find out.