Burnside Carbine

[Ralph A]

Gents, I wanted a "wall-hanger" to put in my "Bunker" and this is what I came up with.

[Ralph A]

I don't generally collect US Civil War collectibles, which is strange because my knowledge of the conflict rivals some who hold doctorates in the field. I live in Fredericksburg Virginia, and my home is only 20 miles or so from several major battlefields: Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, Wilderness, Spotsylvania and Salem Church. 47 Abercrombies fought for the South in the war, all direct relatives. I am a VIP (Volunteers in Parks) for the Fredericksburg-Spotsylvania National Military Park, and have many friends in the Park Service, the Department of the Interior and the US State Department because of my involvement in battlefield and memorial preservation.

The Burnside Carbine was invented and patented by Ambrose P. Burnside (commander) of the Army of the Potomac. The carbine's significance is that it was one of the world's first breech-loaders. I chose this one (less than perfect), because I am not a bona-fide collector of US Civil War (which, at The Citadel we called "The War of Northern Aggression") memorabilia, and I have no business grabbing AAA+++ collectibles away from serious collectors. This one is a fine example, but lacks original blueing.

They were not widely used during the Civil War, but found more widespread use in the Indian Wars. Does anyone here know what a Galvanized Yankee was?

[IrishGunner]

Galvanized Yankee

A Confederate rebel who turned his coat a second time - joining the Union Army after becoming a prisoner

So, why this rifle as your wall hanger? Just what came along or something more meaningful?

Edited January 27, 2013 by IrishGunner

[Ralph A]

Here are some details. By the way, when I visit the Fredericksburg National Battlefield Cemetary, and see the Yankee tombstones, I don't see so much a memorial to Union bravery as I do a monument to Southern marksmanship. ... ohhh, than was bad. Sorry.

[Ralph A]

This carbine had an odd, "ice-cream cone" cartridge. Here is an original example, which I acquired to go with the carbine. Still, they were ignited with percussion caps, so the carbine is not a true "repeater." The "doughnut" ring around the casing acts as a gas seal, which I think is particularly ingenious.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Ralph A

[IrishGunner]

Here are some details. By the way, when I visit the Fredericksburg National Battlefield Cemetary, and see the Yankee tombstones, I don't see so much a memorial to Union bravery as I do a monument to Southern marksmanship. ... ohhh, than was bad. Sorry.

Actually, a monument to lunatic Union commanders... The rebels didn't even need to aim. I think the Brit commanders at Paschendale must have studied Fredericksburg.

[Ralph A]

"So, why this rifle as your wall hanger? Just what came along or something more meaningful?"

I'm not a serious collector of US Civil War memorabilia. Why grab up something from bona-fide collectors who need the best stuff for their collections?

[IrishGunner]

"So, why this rifle as your wall hanger? Just what came along or something more meaningful?"

I'm not a serious collector of US Civil War memorabilia. Why grab up something from bona-fide collectors who need the best stuff for their collections?

Actually, I mean why not something more along the lines of your collecting interests since Civil War isn't your gig?

[Ralph A]

"A Confederate rebel who turned his coat a second time..."

Them thar be fightin' words.... I take it you are a dam-yankee...

Edited January 27, 2013 by Ralph A

[Ralph A]

Glavanized Yankees were not required to fight against their kin. They were sent to the West to fight injuns.

[azyeoman]

Glavanized Yankees were not required to fight against their kin. They were sent to the West to fight injuns.

That's very interesting. Where did you get that fact? I'd like to read up more on that. Thanks in advance! : )

[Ralph A]

From the chief historian at the Fredericksburg battlefield. But don't take me seriously. I'm naturally biased, being a "tongue-in-cheek" unreconstructed secessionist from Charleston, SC.

"...to bolster his election chances in Pennsylvania, Lincoln approved 1,750 more Confederate recruits, enough to form two more regiments, to be sent to the frontier to fight American Indians. Due to doubts about their ultimate loyalty, galvanized Yankees in federal service were generally assigned to garrison forts far from the Civil War battlefields or in action against Indians in the west."

"Whitewashed" rebels were the turncoat ones who fought in the East.

-Ralph "Rhett Butler" Abercrombie

http://www.nps.gov/jeff/historyculture/upload/galvanized_yankees.pdf

Edited January 27, 2013 by Ralph A

[azyeoman]

Thanks. All my ancestors save one fought for the Confederacy; Out of 22 Civil War ancestors, one fought for the Union (he was from Missouri) and the rest were from Arkansas and fought for the South. Two were taken prisoner at Ft. Hudson, LA and one deserted and went west to Arizona. Living in AZ, I'm interested in the Indian Campaigns and wonder how many of the men stationed out here were initially in the CSA?

[Ralph A]

There were four Abercrombies who fought for the Union. Here is one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Joseph_Abercrombie

Funny thing, he is a dead-ringer for my grandfather, Ralph McCall Abercrombie Sr. (I am Ralph McCall Abercrombie III). Incidentally, another scion of my family owned the McCall (McCoull) House at Spotsylvania Battlefield, scene of the second "Lee to the Rear" story of May 12th, 1864.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/leetorear.htm

Edited January 27, 2013 by Ralph A

[IrishGunner]

From the chief historian at the Fredericksburg battlefield. But don't take me seriously. I'm naturally biased, being a "tongue-in-cheek" unreconstructed secessionist from Charleston, SC.

"...to bolster his election chances in Pennsylvania, Lincoln approved 1,750 more Confederate recruits, enough to form two more regiments, to be sent to the frontier to fight American Indians. Due to doubts about their ultimate loyalty, galvanized Yankees in federal service were generally assigned to garrison forts far from the Civil War battlefields or in action against Indians in the west."

"Whitewashed" rebels were the turncoat ones who fought in the East.

-Ralph "Rhett Butler" Abercrombie

http://www.nps.gov/jeff/historyculture/upload/galvanized_yankees.pdf

"Due to doubts about their ultimate loyalty"

There should have been no doubt. Rebels and traitors to both causes. I suspect their "ultimate loyalty" was to their own stinking skin and nothing more. It would be interesting to see how many "distinguished" themselves on the frontier - or simply deserted.

I take it you are a dam-yankee...

Pirates, Orioles, or Red Sox... But never a Damn Yankee.

Out of curiosity... How many Union prisoners decided to "switch sides" and fight for the Confederacy? Rhetorical question... Not many survived Andersonville to even contemplate the choice.

Edited January 27, 2013 by IrishGunner

[Ralph A]

"How many Union prisoners decided to "switch sides" and fight for the Confederacy?"

About 300, from Andersonville (Camp Sumter).

But good for you. Excellent riposte. We're all Americans, after all. The US Civil War made an "us" of the U.S.

I love the story about the reunion of Confederate and Union veterans at the Battle of Gettysburg re-enactment of 1912. When the old surviors of the Army of Northern Virginia walked from the woods in front of Emmittsburg Road, the Yankees of the Grand Army of the Republic at the top of Cemetary Ridge erupted in cheers, and ran down the slope to embrace their former enemies.

Only in America, my friend.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Ralph A

[Ralph A]

Here is my collection of GAR memorabilia. These are veteran's pieces.

My ancestral homelands were in Sumter, SC. A plantation manor belonging to a direct ancestor there was burned by troops of the 54th Massachusetts. You know them, from the movie Glory, and the assault on Fort Wagner. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/54th_Massachusetts_Volunteer_Infantry

No grudges here, though. Those men of the 54th were heroes, as far as I'm concerned.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Ralph A

[Ralph A]

Here is my favorite Civil War picture in my collection, supremely evocative of the desperation and futility of the Lost Cause. It's a period print of a painting by Conrad Wise Chapman (original in the Museum of the Confederacy), of Fort Sumter's (Charleston Bay, SC) southeast gorge angle. It was painted on October 25th, 1863, a few days after the evacuation of Fort Wagner, which was unsuccessfully assaulted by the 54th Massachusetts.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Ralph A

[IrishGunner]

"How many Union prisoners decided to "switch sides" and fight for the Confederacy?"

About 300, from Andersonville (Camp Sumter).

But good for you. Excellent riposte. We're all Americans, after all. The US Civil War made an "us" of the U.S.

I love the story about the reunion of Confederate and Union veterans at the Battle of Gettysburg re-enactment of 1912. When the old surviors of the Army of Northern Virginia walked from the woods in front of Emmittsburg Road, the Yankees of the Grand Army of the Republic at the top of Cemetary Ridge erupted in cheers, and ran down the slope to embrace their former enemies.

Only in America, my friend.

Good points. Not many civil wars resulted in scenes like this afterwards. Reconstruction and the post-war period were still difficult - there was a lot to rebuild, repair, and reconcile - physically and psychologically. But when northerners and southerners poke each other today - it's "good natured" for the most part.

[Ralph A]

"But when northerners and southerners poke each other today - it's "good natured" for the most part."

Cheers to you, my friend. Not many countries can say that about their "differences."

“Thus ended the great American Civil War, which must upon the whole be considered the noblest and least avoidable of all the great mass conflicts of which till then there was record.”

-Winston Churchill

[IrishGunner]

"But when northerners and southerners poke each other today - it's "good natured" for the most part."

Cheers to you, my friend. Not many countries can say that about their "differences."

“Thus ended the great American Civil War, which must upon the whole be considered the noblest and least avoidable of all the great mass conflicts of which till then there was record.”

-Winston Churchill

One thing I will concede. There is no such thing as "good" BBQ north of the Carolinas.

[Ralph A]

"There is no such thing as "good" BBQ north of the Carolinas."

ROTFLMAO. You ain't lying. But we might have to go to war again, if you don't agree that SC Piedmont-style mustard-vinegar-pepper based sauce on pulled pork isn't the World's Finest.

...I'm guessing our European brethren are absolutely mystified by our back-and-forth, Irish.

Well, you win. I'm going to sign off and have some supper. Shrimp and grits tonight, Charleston style.

[IrishGunner]

"There is no such thing as "good" BBQ north of the Carolinas."

ROTFLMAO. You ain't lying. But we might have to go to war again, if you don't agree that SC Piedmont-style mustard-vinegar-pepper based sauce on pulled pork isn't the World's Finest.

...I'm guessing our European brethren are absolutely mystified by our back-and-forth, Irish.

Well, you win. I'm going to sign off and have some supper. Shrimp and grits tonight, Charleston style.

Keep your powder dry... 'cause when I'm in SC... I eat my pork naked! Mustard is for New Yorkers! I prefer a NC or KC style sauce.

[Michael Johnson]

I think the proper name for that unpleasantness is

The War of American Obssession.

[Laurence Strong]

Gents, I wanted a "wall-hanger" to put in my "Bunker" and this is what I came up with.

That's a nice representative example Ralph

Actually, a monument to lunatic Union commanders... The rebels didn't even need to aim. I think the Brit commanders at Paschendale must have studied Fredericksburg.

The commanders at the Somme as well, would be my guess.

Larry