paul wood Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Yesterday I purchased in the Archer Huntington Collection of Spanish Colonial coins a native Indian Imitation of a Carlos III 8 escudos 1770 (or 1772) from the Mexico City Mint (illustrated for comparism is a genuine piece), interstingly it weighs within the parameters of a genuine coins. Apart from it being a fantastic piece of native American art, made by someone unfamiliar with the Western alphabet. What was it's purpose?. These pieces are extremely rare, with only a small number known, an unpierced example appeared in a recent auction in America. Given that it is so different from the original item to be a plausible forgery what is its purpose. Is it a ceremonial piece?, a medal worn by someone of status or a coinage made from locally produced gold made to pay taxes? I certainly intend to research this as much as I can does anyone have any knowledge of Native american arts and traditions or kmow of any websites where I may be able to find assistance. I believe the area it covers is from Central America to the West coast of the USA. I hope you enjoy it and any ideas anyone has are most welcome. All the best, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spasm Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Paul How fascinating. A copy that isn't even close but must have taken effort and a great amount of time to produce. Try www.coincommunity.com and put your pictures into the enquiry section. I've done this before and they've been most helpful. I didn't have any clue for this but they were very helpful. Let us know what you find out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 Spaz, should have asked me first, its an aftercast of a medal by Ciovanni Francisco Enzola (active circa 1450-75) commemorating the marriage of Constanzo Sforza, Lord of Pesaro and Camilla of Aragon, 1475. Interestingly there is written music from the wedding still surviving. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spasm Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Paul Blimey, and it took me ages to find that out. Yes, a recast by a company called Lorioli (still around today but not doing this sort of stuff I beleive), probably from the 50s or 60s I was told. It's a nice thing though, really thick and heavy. Something else the kids can fight over and then discover it's worth a fiver Must go off to find the music. No idea on yours though, sorry. Spaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Very interesting Paul. You say an imitation - which it obviously is when you view the two together - but, still very well done. The detail on the coat-of-arms is exceptional for free hand copying. You don't say, but is this pure gold ? You mention a small number are known - handworked or, cast ? Perhaps they were commissioned by a Provincial Governor to give out to tribal headmen as tokens of Spanish authority ? Africa has had similar badges for years - is anything known about the area they come from ? Best of luck with your research - do let us know how you get on ? Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 Mervyn thank you for your reply, Yes the piece is in good gold and struck from locally made dies, there are about 4 varieties known, each unique or a very few known. I think you suggestin about Indian Chief badges makes sense as they are known in the USA and Canada. These are all imitations of Mexican issues so my suggestion is that they would come from an area that came under the Viceroyalty of Mexico, this included some of Central America, present day Mexico, California, Texas and Florida and I would have thought given the crudity not too close to the centre of government in Mexico City. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numismatist Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Mervyn thank you for your reply, Yes the piece is in good gold and struck from locally made dies, there are about 4 varieties known, each unique or a very few known. I think you suggestin about Indian Chief badges makes sense as they are known in the USA and Canada. These are all imitations of Mexican issues so my suggestion is that they would come from an area that came under the Viceroyalty of Mexico, this included some of Central America, present day Mexico, California, Texas and Florida and I would have thought given the crudity not too close to the centre of government in Mexico City. Paul Hi Paul. Another ongoing hypothesis on these pieces is that they are Oriental imitations of the Spanish doubloon, intended for circulation. Two of the three other pieces I have seen (including the nice one auctioned by Ponterio some time ago) were reportedly found in that area. However, all these pieces bear some resemblance to the attached proclamation medal, 1st reported by Betts ("Some undescribed Spanish-American Proclamation Pieces", 1898) and later listed in Medina's 1919 work. The illustration and description ae from Betts. Nice and rare piece :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Dear Numismatist thank you so much for the useful information, The proclamation medal seems to give the oriental theory credence. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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