Shoulder straps for Dummies

[Chris Boonzaier]

Ok, I realise people have explained things in the past, but I am still in the dark..... Can anyone run through the basic types?

[Chris Boonzaier]

A white piped Sew on, a no piped, a white piped sew in(Bavarian grouping) and one that is for some pre war Bavarian tunic (these are slip in ones with straps on the back).

Muchos Grazias :-)

cHRIS

[Joe Sweeney]

Chris,

My knowledge on these is not great but the 465th is a standard M15 board for Infantry--non Bavarian by the way the end is finished. White was the color for piping on the boards for the bulk of the Infantry--but some Infantry units did retain (Officially) different colored piping. M15 boards should be 4.5cm wide.

The 24th is a type introduced in January 1915--same dimensions as a M10 removable board--but un-piped and meant to be sewn down. These and the M10 boards should be 5.5cm wide. The New Sept 1915 regulations (1916 for Bavaria) that introduced the Bluse and M15 boards were supposed to replace these

The 12th is a M15 Bavarian board and is apparent by the un finished base--Bavaria sewed the boards into the shoulder/sleeve seem everyone else just taked then down at the seem edge.

The Blue-one is out of my knowledge area.

Chip can give chapter and verse on these.

Joe

Edited December 5, 2013 by Joe Sweeney

[Chip]

Chris,

These are not all of the patterns, but the ones you have shown are (l-r),

M15, simplified M07, M16 and prewar overcoat pattern for the old blue/black coat.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi guys,

thanks,

added questions... if a simplified M07, what is a regular one? Is it M16 because its Bavarian? I am still really curious to see a pic of one of these coats, do you know of any?

I really learned something about the unfinished ends! Penny drops... of course it is logical that if they are nit finished they are probably to be sewn in, and if they are to be sewn in, probably Bavarian... so I will stop grinding my teetch and being POed that they did not have the ends finished :-))

[Joe Sweeney]

Chris,

I should use Chip's model designation IAW Kraus and I love Kraus's work. So when I said M10 it should really be M07 and a Bavarian M15 is actually an M16.

I only have a meager collection of boards.

The picture below shows the difference between the M07 (5.5cm) and M15 (4.5cm)--size and construction wise.

The 139th is a M07 and piped IAW the red that designated the XIX Korps. These were made to be removable. The boards introduced in Jan. 1915 (Simplified should be of the same size but no piping or tongue for removal---they were meant to be sewn down.

The M15 board is the 63rd IR and its the only M15 board I have. It is piped white as were most but not all Infantry Regiments with the M15/16 regulations.

Here is a M07 board to the 2PB.--I believe Pioneers boards were piped red with M07 boards and did not follow the Korp piping color

Here is another to 3rd Bav Fs Art---In this case piped IAW Fs Art for M07.

What I don't know is how to tell the difference between private purchase and issue--unless its very obvious in material used etc. I think Daut said in his video numbers might be larger on private purchase than issue.

Also--I'm not sure what kind of variance in width etc can be found on original boards???

By the way I'm looking for M15 boards to the 139th if anyone has any leads??

Joe

[Chip]

Joe,

First, try as I may, I cannot figure out what "IAW" means? I tried to figure it out, but no luck.

You have some nice shoulder straps there. As you know from Kraus, the 63rd got their cypher during the war, after Franz Josef died and Karl became the emperor. It was part of the 12th Division, which used colored strips of cloth across the bottom of the strap to identify the units within the division. IR.63 used a yellow strip.

The difference between private purchase and issue is usually pretty obvious. The main indicators are the materials, style of unit designations, sizes, etc. Private purchase pieces were often backed in a papercloth type material, they often had stiffeners inside (usually papercloth again), button holes were often hand sewn, numbers and cyphers might be embroidered, rather than chain-stitched or fashioned from cord. They often varied in width from regulation, could have non-regulation tongues attached or be hybrids that had features of both the M07s and the M15s. Then there are a few that look very much like issue pieces, but have some subtle differences previously mentioned.

Issue M1907 and M15 straps can vary in width from regulation. M07s are usually very close to the 5.5 cm width, while M15s can go from 5.1 cm to 4.3, with the Bavarian examples being the most off from the regulation 4.5 cm.

I looked through my boxes and I don't have an M15 IR.139 example.

Chip

[Bilco]

IAW - 'in accordance with'?

Bill

[Chip]

Thanks Bill. I have never seen that before. Must be a Brit thing.

Chip