Kriegsmarine KM M?tzenband #2

[Rosenberg]

This one here is used.No smoke when fire-testing

[Rosenberg]

more

[John R]

Also an original cellon muetzenband, what is the length?

Edited March 3, 2006 by John Robinson

[Rosenberg]

This is used and cramped in parts I didn?t want to pull so it only made it to 148,but it has a straight end on one side while the other starts losing some threads.

Thanks for your reply.

Cheers

[John R]

This is used and cramped in parts I didn?t want to pull so it only made it to 148,but it has a straight end on one side while the other starts losing some threads.

Thanks for your reply.

Cheers

OK then, it is basically uncut, so is an unworn issued to the sailor muetzenband and nice to have. John

Edited March 2, 2006 by John Robinson

[Rosenberg]

John,

you say unworn would this include being attached to a M?tze?Actually I might have used a misleading word with cramped(sorry no native speaker),as it is just as if had once had been around a cap.Damn I just don?t know the right word,I will do a pic soon

[John R]

John,

you say unworn would this include being attached to a M?tze?Actually I might have used a misleading word with cramped(sorry no native speaker),as it is just as if had once had been around a cap.Damn I just don?t know the right word,I will do a pic soon

No problem if you want to write in German, Spanish or Portuguese. Anyway, yes, it is too long to have been on the matrosenm?tze. It is cut down just a bit from the issue length of 150 cm even up to almost 190 cm in some cases--usually though you see them around 150 cm in unissued form. However, for worn m?tzenbands, it would normally be around 110-120 cm in length. So you see a lot around 147-150 cm then a lot around 110-120 cm.

Under 100 cm almost for sure the sailor cut it, or somebody cut it, for display, bookmark, something, but too small to be worn by a KM sailor.

Imperial m?tzenbands are the same except for the Reservist bands which are very very long (nearly 400 cm)

John

Edited March 2, 2006 by John Robinson

[Rosenberg]

Thanks alot for the additional info on the various lengths.So the word I lack is "verdrillert"(now how you like that ) and while writing it I think about twisted and narrowed at 2 points.

[John R]

Thanks alot for the additional info on the various lengths.So the word I lack is "verdrillert"(now how you like that ) and while writing it I think about twisted and narrowed at 2 points.

Still too long even if the sailor was a giant. The regulations were very specific in the KM on where the tally should end in relation to the rest of the uniform. I will look it up and let you know. They just could not hang at any length, they had to end in a specific location and no exceptions of course. You find these bands in all kinds of different forms now, with twists and knots, who knows what happened to them in 61 years at least.

John

[Rosenberg]

Yes,you are right-who knows what happened in those 61 yrs!Anyway it is nice to have a original whatever size it has.

Regards

[John R]

Yes,you are right-who knows what happened in those 61 yrs!Anyway it is nice to have a original whatever size it has.

Regards

Yes, I like the cotton ones the best, although from a value point of view, there is no real difference. I just like knowing that the baumwoll/cellon band was most probably issued to a sailor, then he bought the metall bands to look nicer in his uniform. The cellon is hard to tell if it is cotton or cellon, at least from a photo, not in hand. In hand, it is easy to tell.

John

Edited March 3, 2006 by John Robinson

[Rosenberg]

John,

I really must thank you.The last 40min I learned more on these than all the time before.I have no intensified interest in the KM,but do like all KM stuff I get by chance.I actually did know none of what you just taught me!

Kindest Regards

[John R]

Checking my references and examples, yours is in fact cellon. Cellon is a synthetic cotton used to replace the cotton muetzenbands later in the war. In any case, it is still an issue item, just like the cotton, no difference except when in the war it was issued. So it is a nice example to have like I said. The point that made me re-examine this muetzenband was the length. It is too long to be cotton, since cotton ones were shorter than cellon or the gold wire at issue.

[Rosenberg]

Whatelse than a ?thank you?can I add

[John R]

No problem, that is why the club exists I think. I learn a lot about KM items in other areas, comes full circle. Ok, what language is "verdrillert" ?

[Rosenberg]

It is German.It translates to twisted,cramped somewhat in that category.

[John R]

OK, one more comment. This tally of yours has generated some discussion at my end with other collectors. Your tally could have been a worn tally, but not on the ship. In a studio for a portrait photograph, see below. If you look at photos taken of sailors aboard ship, usually the tally is hanging behind the cap, straight down. These tallies would be 110-120 cm. As time went on, the silk frayed, so tallies got shorter as they were clipped for inspection.

However, for the studio portraits, the ones for family and girlfriends, the sailors seemed to always prefer to wear the tally at full length, 150 cm or so, draped over the right or left shoulder and down to the chest. Sometimes they are a bit shorter, but not much. Many examples are in my files of the long tally hanging down over the chest.

So, since yours is tied, I bet it was worn for a studio portrait.