TacHel Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Anybody know what year they switched Napoleon's head from left to right looking? This is a 1869 issue, I've found an 1866 issue also looking right... Any chance of a decree date?
Hendrik Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Hi, I have a Barre designed obverse medal with 1856 on the reverse and a Caqué designed obverse medal with 1858 on its reverse. First one is an Interior Ministry award, second a Navy Ministry one. Should we, therefore, assume the change was made between 1858 and 1866 ? Regards, Hendrik
paul wood Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Next time I get a chance I will check if I can get a definitive date, certainly with the coinage the bust changed from a bare-headed bust to a laureate bust in 1861. I would imagine the change would be around that time. Paul
Veteran Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Since 1810 or about, the Ministry of Interior (Home Office) awards life-saving medals. In 1827, the Admiralty (Ministere de la Marine) was made responsible for all acts of gallantry and humanitiy at sea, with its own life-saving medals. This explains the differences between the two Napoleon III medals shown by Hendrik, the smaller being iNTERIOR and the other MARINE; Each new regime has changed the obverses of the medals given while they existed. From 1852 until 1857 the uncrowned effigy or Napoleon III looked to the left. In 1857/58 the effigy was bore a laurel crown. stil looking left. About 1864/65 the laurelled effigy was turned to the right until the end of the Second Empire in 1870. I hope this answers the question asked by TacHel.
TacHel Posted February 4, 2014 Author Posted February 4, 2014 Yes it does, at least partially, thank you. You wouldn't happen to have a decree date would you?
Veteran Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 The changes from one effigy to the next just occured as they did on coins and postage stamps. No official statement or law are known to have existed, although instructions certainly must exist in the Archives of the Paris Mint. To my knowledge? they have not been examined by collectors or researchers. For this reason, collectors are trying to narrow down the dates when changes occured by recouping known medals of each types with the dates when the medals were published in the Journal Officiel or its predecessor the Moniteur.
TacHel Posted February 7, 2014 Author Posted February 7, 2014 I've spent days, weeks in the JO and Moniteur looking for this... Nada...
Veteran Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) This makes sense. Such matters are not of national importance and would not have to be published in the Moniteur or Journal Officiel. On the other hand, ALL official awards of French life-saving medals issued by one of the Government Minsitries were published. They are sometimes hard to find, but there they are.... or were when it comes to awards to foreign recipients, since the 1870s. Edited February 7, 2014 by Veteran
Megan Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Yeah, this is a nightmare... trying to display this one within my site... Do the changes in design mostly go with the various Republics, etc., since the award was established? Ripping hair out. Think I'll go do a different medal
Veteran Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) You are absolutely right .... obverses changed with each change of political regime. And they also changed during reigns of kings or emperors. Very much in the same way coins changed. Trying to pin down dates when changes really occured is one of life-saving medals collectors' fun-thing; There is still lots of room for further knowledge, since the only way to tell is to find the dates of awards of kown medals., check the style of the medal and record it. You are welcome to join the (very small) crowd if and when you feel like it. Best regards Veteran Edited March 24, 2014 by Veteran
Megan Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 Even knowing the sequence of changes would be a start... dates could start being approximate and get more refined in due course. How many types of the beast are there?
TacHel Posted March 25, 2014 Author Posted March 25, 2014 A few, they were established in 1820 and saw many many changes... I'm aware of at least 7 different variants not taking into account the various levels (bronze, silver, gold etc).
Megan Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Well, that gives me a starting point: 7 variants x the different levels. Now to find images to illustrate it all... and slot them into the right places!
TacHel Posted March 28, 2014 Author Posted March 28, 2014 Well, that gives me a starting point: 7 variants x the different levels. Now to find images to illustrate it all... and slot them into the right places! I have 10 or 11 different ones... Expect pics in the next few days.
JPL Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Hi Frank, From my reference material, I can provide the following information: Decrees: Ministry of the Interior: 16 Nov 1901 and Ministry of the Marine: 14 Dec 1901. The Original decree was 2 Mar 1820 by the Ministry of Marine. It appears that the medal was originally a medal that was not wearable. This changed 31 Jan 1833 (Could be another decree here) by the Ministry of the Marine, Interior and Public Works. As already noted in this thread, there are many designs. Here is what I've been able to find: Louis XVIII Charles X Louis-Philippe Inscription Republique Francaise 1848 Napoleon III (1870) Republic de Barre (1875) (In 1899 the Ministry of Marine replaced this version by one of the Republic of Marey) ROTY (1897) Allegoric figure of Courdray (1950) There are 8 different faces for the Ministry of the Interior version, and 7 different faces for the Ministry of the Marine. Hope this helps. Jean-paul
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