Killed after the Armistice

[Jeff Mc William]

Just as a matter of interest ; Is there a list of those killed immediately after 11.00am on the 11th November 1918 ? As I believe there were quite a few on both sides.

One paricular incident that springs to mind is that of a German officer who stepped out to meet and shake the hand of some advancing Americans at about Mid-day and was shot dead on the spot because the news had not got through to them !

Also, I am told, there is at least one cemetary in France where the dates have been deliberately altered for those killed after the Armistice in order to disguise the facts. An absolute traversty in my opinion.

I wonder...can anyone "out there" elaborate on these observations and perhaps clarify some of the details. Many thanks in advance. Jeff

[Ulsterman]

I've heard stories-notably of a distant distaff family member who got shot by the French on November 12th because the news of the armistice hadn't seeped through. I've never noted specifics though. I think Lynn McDonald has details on incidents post Armistace.

[peter monahan]

.

From Wikipedia:

"To the memory of 256265 Private George Lawrence Price, 28th North West Battalion, 6th Canadian Infantry Brigade, 2nd Canadian Division, killed in action near this spot at 10.58 hours, November 11th, 1918, the last Canadian soldier to die on the Western Front in the First World War. Erected by his comrades, November 11th, 1968... In 1991, the town of Ville-sur-Haine erected a new footbridge across the adjacent Canal du Centre... A plebiscite was held and on 11 November of that year the bridge was officially named the George Price Footbridge (French: Passerelle George Price)

Price is popularly believed to be the last British Imperial killed in the war, shot by a German sniper as he advanced through a row of houses in the village in pursuit of German troops. Henri Gunther, apparently the last Frenchman killed [10:59 am], allegedly charged a group of Germans who first fired warning shots then, when he refused to halt, shot him.

I too would be interested in evidence of soldiers killed after the cessation of hostilities. Very probably there were some, though I am quite skeptical of the 'altered dates' story. Such accidents are and were commonplace in war and would hardly need to be 'covered up' I don't think.

Edited December 22, 2014 by peter monahan

[peter monahan]

I found this quote in a BBC News Magazine article on the last soldiers to die: "Augustin Trebuchon's grave - along with all those French soldiers killed on 11 November 1918 - is marked 10/11/18. It is said that after the war France was so ashamed that men would die on the final day that they had all the graves backdated."

I think that the phrase 'it is said' is of significance. One US unit lost 365 men on Nov. 11 and the average daily death toll for that period on the Western Front was over 2,000 men per day. In fact, Patton was questioned after the war about that fact, given that the Germans had expressed an interest in a ceasefire to be effective as early as Nov. 8th!

I've now looked at about 15 quickly located posts on this topic and though a good number repeat the story about the French deaths, including a Canadian one which offers a long rational which boils down to 'bureaucracy', none cites any source and none, as far as I can tell, is more than a few months or years old.

I'm tending more and more to believe that this is part of the growing mythology of the war engendered by the interest in the centenary.

Peter

Edited December 22, 2014 by peter monahan

[Ulsterman]

is this a BBC History magazine article? I note that all the on-line back issues are on sale over Christmas for only 99 cents. Theres some great stuff there.

[Paul C]

I know you said "killed" but many also died of disease after the fighting stopped. U.S. soldiers remained in France and German up to at least mid-1919. It was in February 1919 that the third wave of influenza hit the continent. Of the fifteen soldiers I have wrote about in my books, three died of disease after 11/11/1919.

[peter monahan]

Ulsterman - found it in a quick search for 'November 11, 1918 deaths', free at a BBC web site.

Paul - The Commonwealth War Graves Commission counted anybody who died up to 1922 as a war casualty. Many many did, from disease and the effects of wounds or gas. Plus, no doubt, some suicides though those are less likely to have been so designated.

[Les]

Technically speaking, the war didn't stop until the Versailles Treaty was signed in 1919. While the German armies pulled back to pre-war boundaries, the Royal Navy blockade continued in full force and prevented all shipments of food, medicine and other supplies (both military and civilian items) from being sent to Germany, or German merchant ships from getting in/out.

During the continued blockade, a state of war technically existed, and the result of the blockade itself resulted in a civilian deaths from lack of adequate food and medical supplies that adversely affected the young and old. Add the Spanish flu to that mix and you get a higher death rate than would have been otherwise.

Although no bullets, artillery rounds, or similar weapons were being fired on either side, make no mistake about the effects of the blockade levied and still in force against the entire German population. These deaths are harder to pinpoint and put names to faces, places and dates, however they are still deaths due to the blockade (and the war) that was still in effect until the summer of 1919.

[peter monahan]

Les,

The descendants of the men killed in Siberia in 1919 might argue your "no bullets, artillery..." but in general your point is valid: the deaths didn't stop at an arbitrary time on an arbitrary day.