Michael R Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Hi, Can anyone out there ID the Div Patch in the photos please? I would also be very interested in your opinions regarding its originality if possible? Your assistance would be greatly appreciated. With thanks, regards and best wishes, Oh and Happy New Michael
Hugh Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Sorry, couldn't find it on a fast pass through Howard Cole's book Formation Badges of World War II. Hugh
Tony Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Michael, I can’t help with the patch but did see a new book on ebay called WWII British Formation Badges Collector’s Guide by Bruno Boulanger. Although I don’t really collect WWII I’ve heard it’s a pretty good reference book but I can't compare it to the book Hugh mentioned. At least there's a choice of books. Tony
Michael R Posted January 7, 2016 Author Posted January 7, 2016 Thank you very much Hugh and Tony for your input and suggestions!!! The badge has me flummoxed and I have had two suggestions as to its authenticity. One saying categorically wrong and one saying the opposite 100% right??? With thanks, regards and best wishes the New Year Michael
peter monahan Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Michael It's not ringing bells with me and I have only one basic book on formation badges. I may get my wrist slapped for this by my colleagues - sending you elsewhere, that is - but you might try the British Badge Forum.
Gunner 1 Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 I have illustrations of British Army, Corps and Division patches and your badge is not similar to any of those.
Hugh Posted January 8, 2016 Posted January 8, 2016 Now this is really off the wall and very obscure, but...Kipling's Kim referred to a red bull as related to a regiment from Tyrone. I wonder if there might be some connection with an Irish formation? All right, you may start giggling now. H
peter monahan Posted January 8, 2016 Posted January 8, 2016 Intersting notion! And, no not giggling at all. OTOH, Kipling was very careful to refer to the regiments in his stories by either clearly fictional names - The Princess Hohenzoolern's Fore and Fit Infantry - or unoffcial nicknames such as 'The Holy Chrisitians', which moniker was I believe meant to refer to one of the Guards battalions who went to India in the 1880s after 60 years home service. So, I suspect that the regimental standard of the 'Black Tyrones' was meant to be unlike any actual regiment's crest. [See, dear, all those hours spent reading Kipling in university, instead of writing essays, did finally pay off! ]
Hugh Posted January 8, 2016 Posted January 8, 2016 Point well taken, Peter. But I wonder if there is a red bull anywhere in an Irish regiment's history. On the other hand, Cole's book refers to three formations using back bulls, none of which remotely resembles the picture shown.
peter monahan Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 I'm afraid, despite my last name, my knowledge of Irish military heraldry falls on the scale somewhere between 'little' and 'nil'. Not even sure how one would research that, frankly.
Jerry B Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 it is the flash for 31st Independent infantry brigade, 1940 pattern, which after it underwent training for mountain warfare in India, it was transferred to 1st Airborne Division and was renamed 1st Airlanding brigade group. The paper backing is not something I have seen on any of the WWII patches I own, otherwise I could not say if it is good or not.
Hugh Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 4 hours ago, Jerry B said: it is the flash for 31st Independent infantry brigade, 1940 pattern, which after it underwent training for mountain warfare in India, it was transferred to 1st Airborne Division and was renamed 1st Airlanding brigade group. The paper backing is not something I have seen on any of the WWII patches I own, otherwise I could not say if it is good or not. Good catch, Jerry. It is indeed in Col. Cole's book (p. 128). I must have flipped right past it. Apologies to all. H
peter monahan Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 Well spotted, Jerry. Though I did like Hugh's theory too!
Michael R Posted January 28, 2016 Author Posted January 28, 2016 Hi All, Please accept my thanks and best wishes for taking the time to give advice and references for the Div Badge. I am very grateful for it's identification and can only hope that it is original as it is not a manufacturing technique that I have come across so whether that is a good thing or a bad thing I am not too sure. Anyway, thank you all once again. Regards and best wishes Michael R
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