Japanese Sword 1870 help ?????

[QSAMIKE]

Good Morning Everyone......

Help.....

I have obtained the sword as shown below.....

I have been advised by a number of people that the design is similar to an American pattern of 1851.....

There are no markings of any kind on the blade just what looks like some Imperial markings on the hilt.....

There is an engraving that looks like two number Seven's on the hilt.....

I know nothing about this blade so any help would be greatly appreciated......

Thanks in advance.....

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Danny63]

Hello..

The sword design is based on the cavalry sword M1840, originally derived from the French ussar's sword but later used from many heavy cavalry all over the world (common in USA civil war but also in british army, german and many others).

No doubt that Japanese army never used this kind of sword.

Japanese navy enacted a similar one in Meiji,3 (1870) for the first landing forces, who had uniforms and equipment derived from British Royal Navy (in IJN only the first marines group had sword with metal scabbard, and just from 1870 to 1876).

Actually there's no pictures of these ancient swords, but everythink I can see here seems not to be corrected for a japanese sword. There is only a suspension mount (japanese model 1870 had two), tsuka materials are incorrect and I'm sure that symbols are not compatible with japanese tradition (from the beginning, only sakura or paulownia flowers are used as imperial marks on tsuka and guard).

Sure, when talking about japanese swords nothing is impossible, but here we have a sword used also by british colonial forces and a simbology clearly connected with chinese culture, so my opinion is that this sword come from an asian country related to the old britannic empire (possible Hong kong or Singapore), and it's not from Japan.   

 

Edited October 22, 2016 by Danny63

[peter monahan]

British Imperial armies and their affilitates: India, Singapore, Mauritisu and the others, typically used the same weapons as the British and this is not, I'm quite sure, a British piece as such.  Some of the colonies, of course, added their own heraldry and symbols but, as suggested, this is far more suggestive of the US and French/German style swords than of British ones, IMO.

 Perhaps Korea, Vietnam or another Asian former colony?  Or perhaops a fantasy piece made up for the tourist/collector trade.

[QSAMIKE]

Good Morning Gentlemen......

Thank you for your comments......

Peter:   Or perhaps a fantasy piece made up for the tourist/collector trade.

No it is not a fantasy piece as a couple of other people here have inspected it and it is authentically made......  One person who looked at it stated that if it did not have the decoration on the hilt he would say it was an American 1851 pattern possibly imported from a neutral country during Civil War by either side ......

 

Mike

[Danny63]

"One person who looked at it stated that if it did not have the decoration on the hilt he would say it was an American 1851 pattern possibly imported from a neutral country during Civil War by either side"

It's not so. All 1851 US pattern swords have 2 suspension mount , cause it is just a cavalry sword derived from 1840 model. Au contraire, the 1840 sometimes has 1 mount, cause it was adopted by some countries for various purpose (landing foces in Japan, but also infantry and guards in other states), and this justify the only one mount.

I should be wrong, but IMHO this is an infantry/guards sword inspired from british version of 1840 saber, and the central symbol on the hilt should be a stilized peacock, national emblem of  Burma during the british domain.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2016 by Danny63

[QSAMIKE]

Thank You Danny.......

Will keep on searching......

Mike