Scottish Tunic Identification

[Bydand87]

Gentlemen,

 

I have had a Scottish regimental tunic in my possession for sometime and have just dug it out of the loft, seeing it for the first time in 30 years.  It is an unusual tunic in that it is obviously Scottish, but is not cut like a traditional dublet, rather, it is closer to a traditional No.1 Patrol jacket albeit with cutaway skirt and Lovat green in colour.  It also has removable epaulettes (with 3 pairs of pip holes).

I bought it in London Ontario Canada in the early 1980s and I always assumed it was from The Perth Regiment.  It was rifle green, Scottish and its buttons were Cameronian (as I believe The Perth Regiment possessed) and have Wm Anderson stamped on the back.  The buttons are not silver but are not tarnished.  There is the tailors tag on it reading: 

Wm. Anderson and Sons Ltd.

EDINBURGH & GLASGOW

Capt. G.S. Atkins

March 1953 279347

So far as I have found, the service number is British Army, circa 1943.  The mystery is the cut of the tunic and also the Regiment as I believe the Cameronian buttons were normally blackened.  

Is it originally British brought to Perth Regiment service?  Could it have been Cameronians TA (6/7 Bn)?

These are the best photos I can manage.  The yellow piper badge I sewed on myself when I used the tunic for piping jobs.  Grateful for any information.

 

[peter monahan]

Welcome to the GMIC, ByDand.  I'm afraid I have nothig to contribute to the ID of this tunic except to note that it's being found in London, ON may or may note be significant. The amount of British militaria available in Canada is surprisingly high and a tribute both to the close connections between Canada and the Uk and to the number of veterans who immigrated and the number of 'British' collectors over here!

[Bydand87]

18 hours ago, peter monahan said:

Welcome to the GMIC, ByDand.  I'm afraid I have nothig to contribute to the ID of this tunic except to note that it's being found in London, ON may or may note be significant. The amount of British militaria available in Canada is surprisingly high and a tribute both to the close connections between Canada and the Uk and to the number of veterans who immigrated and the number of 'British' collectors over here!

Very many thanks.  I suspect a Cameronians/Perth Regiment linkage.  I can order in, at the local library, an Army List from the early 1950s so that should identify the name of Capt Atkins. 

[coldstream]

ByDand,

Again welcome to the Forum. I am no expert regarding Scottish Regiments but I do have a few observations regarding this Tunic.

Like you, I would have thought a connection to the Cameronians but the silver buttons are confusing. Perhaps as you say, it is connected to the Territorial Companies of the Regiment.

The tunic appears to lack any evidence of collar insignia? Has this tunic been worn by Captain Atkins or was it some kind of undress uniform where Regimental distinctions were not worn.

There appear to be no Medal ribbons or evidence of them ever being worn, one would expect a Captain in the fifties to have some medal entitlement. This of course could be some form of tunic worn informally but I would again expect to see the medal ribbons worn.

I have tried without success to find reference to Captain Atkins but will keep at it and get back to you should I find anything.

Regards Simon.

 

[Bydand87]

On 4/4/2017 at 11:12, coldstream said:

ByDand,

Again welcome to the Forum. I am no expert regarding Scottish Regiments but I do have a few observations regarding this Tunic.

Like you, I would have thought a connection to the Cameronians but the silver buttons are confusing. Perhaps as you say, it is connected to the Territorial Companies of the Regiment.

The tunic appears to lack any evidence of collar insignia? Has this tunic been worn by Captain Atkins or was it some kind of undress uniform where Regimental distinctions were not worn.

There appear to be no Medal ribbons or evidence of them ever being worn, one would expect a Captain in the fifties to have some medal entitlement. This of course could be some form of tunic worn informally but I would again expect to see the medal ribbons worn.

I have tried without success to find reference to Captain Atkins but will keep at it and get back to you should I find anything.

Regards Simon.

 

Simon,

 

Thanks for the top tips.  You are right enough that it should have had ribbons or marks where the ribbons were, but totally absent.

Unhelpfully, the Service Number appears in the London Gazette online as a Lt commissioned in the RAMC in 1943: P.B. Wooley.  I would not have thought that officers' S/N were re-used.  I received the 1950 edition of the Army List from my library, but no G.S.Atkins (or Atkinson) present, and no listings by S/N.  I will try to order a 1953+ copy.

There are old holes of collar badges however.  25mm apart, side to side.  I thought that the Cameronians did not adapt collars until the Brigade system robbed them of their cap badge.  Either way, the common collar badge was the mullet and bugle horn, I believe the lugs were up-down.

I found an interesting photo online.  The jacket, dated 1937, is similar (but not Highland cut skirt) and the collar badges are bugle horns that may fit the pattern of holes.  It is described as a Scottish Rifles (Cameronians) tunic, so I wonder given that the 2nd Bn (merged late 40s) always titled itself the 2nd Scottish Rifles, that this may belong to a Scottish Rifles-affiliated Cameronian TA battalion.  The plot thickens, the link is here and the photo below:

Edited April 5, 2017 by Bydand87