Austro-Hungarian unknown uniform

[Morar Andrei]

In an old family photo there are two soldiers who fought in the First World War in the Austro-Hungarian army. One of them wears the classic uniform of infantry, blue-grey or feldgrau, with a hat same colour with the tunic on his head. The other one wears a completely different uniform. The tunic he wears is of dark color, possibly blue, green or brown, at the tunic collar having two stars placed vertically, two on one side and two on the other, with the possibility to designate his rank in the army. On the head he wears the same felgrau hat as the other, his uniform remindin about an image of a Tyrolian Kaiserjäger, but it is unlikely to be so. Now, I request your help in identifying his unit kind. There should also be noted that he and the other guy were transylvanian volunteers in the army, so from the hungarian side of the empire, which might have used little modifications to the uniform. Was he possible to be an infantry lieutant, corporal, artilery crew or even a jäger? Or was there any influence of the place he was coming from (south-east Transylvania)? The image below is describing the guy I am looking for. Thank you very much! Sorry if the pictures are a bit unclear, the photography is placed in a 100 years old orthodox icon. Does anyone know what unit was wearing this uniform down below? Unfortunately, it may not have enaugh details for a clear identification, but are there enaugh for an aproximate one? 

[Bayern]

Hello : the man pictured wears the uniform of the Austro Hungarian Army used prior to 1908 for the field .for Infantry . Pike grey coloured cap , dark blue tunic . and not shown in the pic ,Pike grey coloured trousers .the two stars on his collar marked him as a Korporal .he is not an officer . his tunic with shoulder straps is for Rank and file . Being originary of Transilvannia ,probably he belonged to an Royal Hungarian or a Imperial and Royal Regiment .(hungarian ) Do you know of which town or city they belonged?

[Morar Andrei]

These two guys are from Cuciulata village, now in Brașov county. The closest cities/ towns where they could be conscripted would be Rupea, Făgăraș/Fogarasch and Brașov/Brasso/Kronstadt. So, from south-east Transylvania.

[Bayern]

Andrei . The Brasso ,Brassov , Kronstadt city was garrison of the Royal hungarian Honved Infantry Regiment 24 .whose recruits were of the surrounding country .But the 2nd imperial and Royal Hungarian Infantry Regiment was also garrisoned in Brasso ,Brasso Kronstadt. and recruited in the same area . In 1914 the ethnicity of the regiment was 61 % Hungarians , 27 % Romanians and 12 % others.Another Royal Hungarian Infantry Regiment garrisoned in Transylvania ,Ardeal ,Siebenburgen , was the number 21 . whose 3rd Bataillon was stationed in Fagaras ,Fogarasch .

[Morar Andrei]

Thank you very much! Now, as I know what units can I relate, I want to find out: what kind of units were constituting these divisions? And second one: where did these units fight, on what front? I would add that Cuciulata was part of the Fogarasch recruiting district, so I would connect them ratherly to the Infantry Regiment Nr.21, third batallion (the headquarters of this unit was in Hermenstadt, but the 3rd battalion was stationed in Fogarasch). So on what front did this unit fight and what kind of units were composing it?

Edited October 14, 2017 by Morar Andrei

[Bayern]

Andrei : They were Infantry regiments .One the 2nd was a Imperial and Royal Infantry regiment of Hungarian ethnicity and uniform .the other two were Royal Hungarian Infantry regiments . all of them regular standing units . not second line troops .excuse me a mistake the regiment with the 3rd bataillon in fogaras was the 23 rd and not the 21th  .You wants to know about the participation of these units in ww1, well its not easy . much of the history of the Austro Hungarian units during the ww1 was lost in the aftermath of the dissolution of the Empire .some regiments have their history recorded ,most no .one form of search is the study of the campaigns beggining with the Serbian . probably due to the fact that four Royal Hungarian Divisions took part in the attack against Serbia the two R H regiments fought in Serbia .The other alternative was the Galician front . against Russia . Finally in 1916 when Romania invaded Transylvania surely these Regiments fought against the Romanians . 

[Morar Andrei]

So, the three variants would be Infantry Regiment Nr.24 or 2nd Imperial and Royal (Kaiserlich und Königlicht) Hungarian Infantry Regiment, both garrisoned in Kronstadt; or 3rd battalion of the Infantry Regiment Nr.23, garrisoned in Fogarasch? If these were infantry-only (rifles; no Jägers, no Feldjägers or Gendarmerie) regiments, the guy I'm looking for was probably a corporal? The rank matches, but that dark uniform is the thing that puzzles me. I've seen an almost identical uniform to a Feldjäger, so that is strange. Thank you!

[Bayern]

Andrei : Until 1909 the service and field uniform of theAustrian and Hungarian infantry was A dark blue Bluse with collar patches in regimental colour , in the case of the Honved ,red .the field cap was grey blue , the same colour the tight trousers .to me your man is a Korporal (tizedes in hungarian ) of a Honved infantry regiment . between 1900 and 1909 . he carries a Mannlicher M1895 rifle , he wears a shooter award .

[Morar Andrei]

Conclusion: probably Honved? If yes, aproximately what year, according to his uniform? Thank you very much!

Edited October 27, 2017 by Morar Andrei

[Bayern]

Between 1900 and 1909 , but in fact ,the old uniforms were used to some extent until 1914 .and inclusive after the war broke out. 

[Morar Andrei]

In another source, someone confirmed that this might be a Royal Hungarian Infantry Reginent 23 uniforn, maybe right a wartime one. He placed these two betwen 1914-1916, but if the were not send to the front, the timeline can be extended until 1918. One sure thing: in the 1918 photo from their village, these two guys look to be missing, wich majes the things a bit puzzleing

[Morar Andrei]

Finally got a colorised version, preety decent. Hope to help...

[Morar Andrei]

Finally got more information, as an update to the current situation. Here what I can connect to them:

- native from Kucsuláta (Cuciulata in Romanian), part of Fogaras district

- fought in the Austro-Hungarian Army as infantry soldiers

- one of them looks to have the rank of corporal in a Honved division, the other one being just a rifleman

- most probably members of the Royal Hungarian Infantry Regiment Nr.23, 3rd battalion (battalion garrisoned in Fogaras)

- the fate of the regiment, such as these two's, is unknown to me; they maybe fought in Galicia, Serbia, Italy or Romania

- in the photography of the Cuciulata conscripts returned home in autumn-winter 1918, these two guys are not visible, which would mean some possibilities: a) they died on the front, but I haven't seen any mention of that on the WW1 heroe's monument from Cuciulata or in the cemetery of austro-hungarian soldiers from Făgăraș, even if there are many romanian names;  they fought in Italy, and maybe joined the Romanian Legion from the italian army (argument reinforced by the fact that many soldiers of that unit were from Făgăraș and the sorrounding villages), unit which was disbanded only in 1919, year when its members returned home c) the just weren't visible in the image, which would be a bit awkward, because everyone there is very visible

- I'm not sure if they are from my direct family line or are indirect relatives, even thou my family name is very common in that area (Morar, Moraru, Morariu etc.). Plus, in some possible hungarian registers, their names might be adapted to the hungarian form, which would be a bit puzzleing

 

Also, I got some colorised images, which might help:

[Morar Andrei]

Is there enaugh information for something? Thanks!

[Morar Andrei]

Anyone?

[Morar Andrei]

This is how I found the image. It was 7x4 cm.

 

[Morar Andrei]

Does this look like my corporal uniform, or at least is similar?

[Farkas]

Certainly similar....

On 16/10/2017 at 02:23, Bayern said:

Andrei : Until 1909 the service and field uniform of theAustrian and Hungarian infantry was A dark blue Bluse with collar patches in regimental colour , in the case of the Honved ,red .the field cap was grey blue , the same colour the tight trousers .to me your man is a Korporal (tizedes in hungarian ) of a Honved infantry regiment . between 1900 and 1909 . he carries a Mannlicher M1895 rifle , he wears a shooter award .

Any news your end?

best wishes

tony

[Bayern]

Hello , the man on your post of October 3 is a infantryman of German regiment ,note the long trousers . 

[Morar Andrei]

Oh, yeah. Thank you! It is more probable that the men I am looking served in a Hungarian regiment due to their region (and also the Magyar units has on their trousers the famous "Hungarian knot"). Are there any illustrations of Hungarian soldiers from 1900-1914? The thing I do not understand is why the corporal has a different colored uniform, while the soldier next to him is wearing a more "classic" uniform of the A-H army. I understand he has a different rank, but they might have served in the same unit.