Bavarian medal bar with austrian Golden merit cross

[palencia]

Hi all,

This Bavarian medal bar has a austrian golden merit cross with the peace time ribbon. The cross seems to be made of bronze.

If I'm not mistaken this decoration was made in bronze between 1916 and 1918. So, is it possible to be a ribbon of peacetime with a cross made of bronze, or this cross should be a gold one?

[tifes]

Hi Palencia,

Well, theoretically he could also get a Merit Cross with Crown on red (peace) ribbon during the WWI if his activity wouldn’t have been anyhow connected with merits in war. However I assume that displayed group belonged to Bavarian military person active for some time  before WWI as he also had China Commemoration Medal for Combatants 1901. I would say that he originally received Merit Cross with Crown in real gold before WWI however he preserved that piece as valuable item and replaced it by gilded bronze version which was cheap and easy to acquire. This ribbon is probably from 1920s or maybe even 1930s. It was quite common with old German veterans to preserve the original and unique pieces and use some cheap replacement for everyday wear instead. Even that above- mentioned  China medal looks like later struck for me.

 

Regards,

 

Tifes

 

 

 

 

 

[Trooper_D]

12 hours ago, tifes said:

It was quite common with old German veterans to preserve the original and unique pieces and use some cheap replacement for everyday wear instead.

You make a very important point, Tifes, which, as collectors, we should always bear in mind when considering the authenticity of medal bars. 

As you have shown, it is quite possible for a medal bar to be legitimate - and attributable to a named individual, perhaps - yet contain copy medals; the originals having been kept in their boxes in a safe at the owner's home. Perhaps too many bars are dismissed as being 'fakes' because some (or all) of the component medals are obviously copies. 

I suppose this comes down to what we consider 'authenticity' to mean when we discuss medal bars.

[palencia]

On 4/12/2017 at 00:24, tifes said:

Hi Palencia,

Well, theoretically he could also get a Merit Cross with Crown on red (peace) ribbon during the WWI if his activity wouldn’t have been anyhow connected with merits in war. However I assume that displayed group belonged to Bavarian military person active for some time  before WWI as he also had China Commemoration Medal for Combatants 1901. I would say that he originally received Merit Cross with Crown in real gold before WWI however he preserved that piece as valuable item and replaced it by gilded bronze version which was cheap and easy to acquire. This ribbon is probably from 1920s or maybe even 1930s. It was quite common with old German veterans to preserve the original and unique pieces and use some cheap replacement for everyday wear instead. Even that above- mentioned  China medal looks like later struck for me.

 

Regards,

 

Tifes

 

 

 

 

 

Tifes, thanks for your reply.

The theory that you pose is quite probable, but I think there may be another alternative theory: The medal bar does not have the Jubilee medal, which seems indicate that this man left  the Army before 1905 (he could have completed his 9 years Bavarian Army service prior to 1905  and then change it the DA by the model of 1913) and became public servant (bureaucrat, diplomatic service ....), in which he be awarded with the Ludwig Cross and the austrian Golden Merit Cross with crown (with red ribbon, more typical of a civil servant than the military personnel) during WWI.