LADYSMITH SIEGE MEDAL : What IS this ??? Have YOU seen this before?? Please help !!!!!

[David B 1812]

LADYSMITH SIEGE MEDAL : What IS this ???

ANGLO-BOER WAR: Item of Interest - Can YOU help with DETAILS, please ??? 

Right - something to test you chaps: THIS is a 25mm X 25mm "Maltese / Cross Pattee" type of cross. It is roughly made, and is impressed (on one side) : "Siege of Ladysmith (and) P. of L.T.S." and on the other side: "2.11.99 / C.J.L. / 28.2.1900". NOW, either THIS cross, or one very, very similar to it was SOLD at auction by Messrs DN&W on 20.09.2002 (At the OMRS Convention); and yet another very, very similar cross (or even THIS cross) was sold at auction by Messrs GILDINGS Auctioneers, U.K. on 24.10.2017 . QUESTIONS: Has any member seen this before? Anyone have experience of this "cross". Is it unique? Or are there MANY? Who or What is the abbreviation: "P. of L.T.S." and also : "C.J.L." ??? One source claims that it is made of "gun metal" and another claims that it is made from shrapnel. I have to ASSUME that it is NOT unique, as the specimen sold by DN&W (and later by Gildings) had the SAME abbreviation: "F.C.E." (and these may be a person's initials) whilst the specimen I am showing HERE has the abbrev/initials of: "C.J.L." - which strongly suggests that there are at least TWO of these crosses ??? All comments and information would be much appreciated. Thank you.

[QSAMIKE]

Hello David......

I think that this is just a piece of what will be later called trench art.....  Just a souvenir  made by someone in Ladysmith and personalized by the persons initials.....  I have seen this sort of thing made with coins......

Mike

 

 

[QSAMIKE]

Cannot find any unit with initials P. of L. T. S. and I agree that the C.J.L. is a name......

Mike

[David B 1812]

Thanks Mike, for your thoughts. 

David B.

[Neville_C]

Hello David,

I have seen four of these. "P. of L.T.S." stands for "Piece of Long Tom Shell". Similar Maltese crosses were produced for the Armoured Train Disater, stamped with the initials "A.T.D." and "FRERE 15.11.99".

One I have in my collection is named to a "G.E. NAYLOR V.D.G" [5th Dragoon Guards]. Oddly, Naylor joined and fought through the ABW with an assumed name: "Alfred Blackburn".

Hope this helps,

Neville

[QSAMIKE]

Well you learn something new every day......   Thanks Neville......

Still have never seen one before......

Mike

 

[Neville_C]

BTW, it is highly unlikely that these crosses were actually made from shell fragments. To take a huge lump of 6-inch shell, hammer it into thin sheets, and then cut these into crosses ..... Far too labour-intensive, I would have thought. I am not aware of any part of a Creusot shell that would have already had these characteristics. 

Some of the napkin rings purporting to be made from copper driving-bands are similarly dubious. In some instances the spacings of the cannelures and rifling-grooves do not match those of any known projectiles/ordnance of the period. An engineer by the name of Gerrans produced such items in his workshop in Mafeking. His keenness to obtain souvenirs ended in disaster when a shell exploded on his workbench, killing a passer-by and injuring himself and his foreman (the latter losing a foot). However, this did not put a stop to Gerrans's antics as, in 1902, he converted a Long Tom shell into a clock to be presented to Joe Chamberlain when he visited the town that year.

 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Neville_C

[peter monahan]

If there is a market, somebody will provide the merchandise! 

I recall reading a novel, written by an ex-US officer, in which he describes filthy, bearded Marines running up 'Japanese battle flags' on liberated sewing machines for sale to the sailors and other 'REMF's who came ashore on Guadalcanal after the shooting stopped and have never had any reason to doubt that the author was speaking of actual events, albeit in a ficitional context!

[Greg Smith]

Long Cecil is a single cannon, designed for Kimberley.  Cecil John Long [CJL]  ie  a Cecil John LongTom ??  <<< just a guess with reference to the comment above -P. of L.T.S." stands for "Piece of Long Tom Shell". Similar Maltese crosses were produced for the Armoured Train Disater, stamped with the initials "A.T.D." and "FRERE 15.11.99 [by Neville_C]