Friedrich Krupp Aktiengesellschaft Photo ID Request

[Kilday]

Hello!

I’ve had this (see below) and a handful of other photos for many years. At first glance, the officers and men in the photograph appear to be Germanic. Some may well be however, I know several to be Ottoman which isn't all that unusual. 

I know the identity of one of the officers (center back) because he is my great grandfather which is how I have the photo in the first place. I know next to nothing about him. I’ve attempted to identify the others but with no success. 

The officer second from the left looks a bit like Prince Frederick Charles of Hesse. That said, many of the men tended to look alike owing to the grooming and fashion trends of the day. Also, If you look closely at his sword langet, it would appear to be a Prussian star. The same or similar langet can be seen on the sword held by the officer wearing a similar uniform on the far right. Although not a langet, the fourth officer from the left has some type of insignia next to his sword knot. Perhaps, it’s just a buckle. 

If you have a moment, I would appreciate any help with items such as rank, uniform, etc., in order to provide me with better context for this document. 

 

[arb]

Kilday,

They are certainly German officers.  If you would be willing to share the name of your relative, I could trace his military career using a variety of contemporary sources in my library and perhaps place this photo in its proper context.  

Andy

 

 

[Kilday]

23 hours ago, arb said:

Kilday,

They are certainly German officers.  If you would be willing to share the name of your relative, I could trace his military career using a variety of contemporary sources in my library and perhaps place this photo in its proper context.  

Andy

 

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply, Andy. His name is Osman Remzi. He did not have a surname. He was from Karaferye which is known now as Veria, Greece. 

I found references to an officer named Remzi in Rangliste der königlich Preußischen Armee und des XIII. Armeekorps für 1911 (p.42, 189) and, an officer named Mehemed Remzi in Rangliste der königlich Preußischen Armee und des XIII. Armeekorps für 1912 (p.42, 189). 

I have no idea if this is the same person as seen in the photos. I'm told that he was killed in battle in Palestine (b.1878, d.1917).

[arb]

This is what I found.

On 01 April 1911, Remzi, a Turkish officer, along with several others, was placed à la suite in the Prussian army and granted the uniform of Infantry regiment 32 and attached to that regiment for temporary duty- presumably training in Prussian military affairs and tactics.  The two officers you mentioned from the 1912 and 1912 Ranglisten are the same officer as evidenced by the same date of rank.  It appears that he returned to Turkish service in late September 1912.  His name is given as Mehemed Remzi in the Oct 1912 Rangliste noting his departure.

On 22.03. 1915 three Ottoman officers, including one named Remzi, were placed à la suite in the Prussian army.  Remzi was granted the uniform of the Garde Schützen Battalion.  He, along with the other two, remained in their positions as officers accompany three Ottoman princes in Prussia, I believe he was attached to Prince Abdulhalim.

As for the picture, I think given the date and the other officers' uniforms, it is possible that these are the three officers placed à la suite in the Prussian army and accompanying the three Ottoman princes.  Given Krupp's pre-eminent place within the German wartime economy, it would certainly be a place for the princes to visit.

The other two pictures are clearly of the same two people.  The officer in the automobile is wearing a Shako, which was worn by the Garde Schützen Battalion and his uniform looks like that worn by that unit as well.

So, my guess is that the other officer is Price Abdulhalim

At least now you have a starting point for further research.  If you have any questions, let me know.  Perhaps others better acquainted with uniforms can add their ideas.

Andy

 

Here is the original entry from the Militär Wochenblatt in 1915

22.03.1915

Nachstehende Kaiserl. Ottoman. Offiziere als Oberlts. à l.s. d. Armee im Heere angestellt:

Remzi, Maj. d. türk. Inf., m.d. Unif. d. Garde Schützen Bats.

Assaf, Rittm. d. türk. Kav., m.d. Unif. d. Leib Garde Hus. Regts.

Hairi, Hauptm. d. türk. Feldart., m.d. Unif. d. 2. Garde Feldart. Regts.  Dieselben sind in ihrem Verhältnis als Begleitsoffiziere der Prinzen des Osmanischen Reiches, Abdulhalim, Oman Fuad und Abdulrahim Hairi, Kaiserl. Hoheiten, belassen

 MWB 1915, columns 1901-1902

[Dave Danner]

Two of those officers were released from the Prussian Army later that year:

[Kilday]

Das ist ja klasse! Vielen, vielen Dank, Andy! 

> On 22.03. 1915 three Ottoman officers, including one named Remzi, were placed à la suite in the Prussian army.  Remzi was granted the uniform of the Garde Schützen Battalion.  He, along with the other two, remained in their positions as officers accompany three Ottoman princes in Prussia, I believe he was attached to Prince Abdulhalim.

That's him. I was told that he was a polyglot and aide to an Ottoman prince (at least during this time-frame.) From left to right I now have the following: (4) Abdürrahim Hayri Efendi; (5) Maj. Remzi; (6) Mehmed Abdülhalim Efendi; and, (9) Osman Fuad. (2) and (9) look an awful lot alike. Osman would have been 20 years old in 1915 and (9) looks the younger of the two. Also, like you said, Abdülhalim appears in all three photos with Maj. Remzi which suggests that he was assigned to him in some capacity. 

Cheers, 

Kilday

4 hours ago, Dave Danner said:

Two of those officers were released from the Prussian Army later that year:

This is wonderful, Dave. Did you find this online? If so, would you be so kind as to provide me with the source? 

[Kilday]

I thought that I would go ahead and the remaining photo with Mehmed Abdülhalim Efendi in the event that anyone is interested. Thanks again for your help, arb and Dave Danner.

Cheers,

Kilday