Thoughts about this pair?

[Noor]

Hi all,

 

Got them locally from Ireland (name sounds like Irish as well). They look and feel a nice period made pieces but I am far of being an expert of US medals.

Any initial thoughts and opinions about this pair? Like I understand "White Sea" is a rare enough clasp?

 

Thank you for any comments in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Noor

[IrishGunner]

Hopefully, our Navy Good Conduct Medal experts will jump in with some comments.  But in the meantime, to get things started:

First, that "Washington" clasp is odd - not an official part of the Navy GCM.

The engraving "USS Pennsylvania" and the date 1908, means this was not the famous battleship USS Pennsylvania (BB-38), but rather USS Pennsylvania (ACR-4) or an armored cruiser.  BB-38 was commissioned in 1916, at which time ACR-4 was re-named USS Pittsburgh.

BB-38 earned the "Atlantic Fleet" clasp.  ACR-4 did sail in the Baltic from June 1919 until Sept 1919 on relief operations.  The "White Sea" clasp was authorized for visiting Russian ports from Nov 1918 until 31 July 1919; so, it's possible ACR-4 did earn the "White Sea" clasp.  Although, I could not find a list of ships specifically authorized the clasp.  According the Navy's official history website, there were only 1000 "White Sea" clasps issued; so, yes among the most scarce Navy bars to the US Victory Medal.  But I have seen legitimate ones for sale in the $300 range, so not unobtainable.

You have a name; so, further research (Ancestry) is very possible.

For me, a plausible and legitimate pair.

[Noor]

Wow. Thank you so much for that initial information! Looks like luck struck me once again :).

I just realized that Washington clasp has a same number and date inside!

Have to run to the birthday party now so no time for a research.

 

Also I would like to point out - I do not collect US awards so these will end up on ebay or will be moved on anyway. If that an issue to provide information then please take it to consideration. Just wanted to be fair with the fellow forum members!

[scottplen]

Uss Washington was an Armored Cruiser ! I like the pair ! But I’m no expert on clasps like that ! I would post it in US militaria forum there is a wwI clasp guy on there but I forget his name ?

scott

Edited August 18, 2018 by scottplen

[IrishGunner]

Yep, USS Washington became USS Seattle in 1916 so the name Washington could go to another battleship. But USS Seattle was on escort duty and would likely never have qualified for the White Sea bar.  Of course, with the dates of 1908 and 1912, nothing says Weldon was on either of those ships for WWI and post-war Russia operations. 

I still like the pair.

[Noor]

Thanks again. Here are few close ups of the bar.. 

Back

[Noor]

The Weekly Irish Times 29 Dec 1928.

 

[IrishGunner]

Nice find in the research.

[IrishGunner]

From my short research, I have come across an official Navy publication that lists the following ships for the White Sea clasp:

Des Moines (CL-17) - a cruiser

Eagle No. 1, Eagle No. 2, Eagle No. 3 (patrol boats)

Olympia (C-6) - actually a very famous cruiser.  Admiral Dewey's flag ship for the Battle of Manila Bay, Spanish American War and she carried the remains of the Unknown Soldier of the First World War back to the United States.  She is now a museum ship in Philadelphia.

Edit: Found three more ships - Galveston, Chester, and Yankton

Pittsburgh (aka Pennsylvania) earned the Patrol clasp according to this pub. Seattle (aka Washington) earned Escort clasp.

Edited August 21, 2018 by IrishGunner

[Ulsterman]

Great pair of medals and fantastic research.