KwaNdebele Police Establishment Medal Mystery.

[Marcon1]

Hi All,

Can anyone help me with this medal.

I have seen 2 different types and I am wondering whether the second type is either a fake or an unfinished factory stock medal sold to collectors after KwaNdebele was re-incorperated within the South African Republic.

This is a full size medal.

Also full size medal.

As you can see there is nothing on the reverse.

This type of medal is often offered on Ebay and BidorBuy for sale (even by some dealers), yet the first type I have only seen once.

So, official 2nd. type, unfinished factory stock medal or fake - who can tell me what it is.

With thanks.

[fjcp]

hi there,

I may not be able to solve the question of fake or not, but here is what i can tell you.The quality of the two types is vastly different. The type 1, is a pretty well made, thick and heavy medal and clearly the real deal. The 2nd type is made of metal of some kind but it is very thin and very light. The rear is obviously blank and the front, although rather cleanly stamped, is certainly not the same the type 1. The coat of arms in the middle is larger for starters.

So is it a fake? I suspect it is, as none of the many other homeland medals I have are of this poor a quality. Can I be sure? No.

Hope this helps and please see the pictures for more fuel on the fire.

Jan

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by fjcp

[fjcp]

Hi again,

Saw your other threads about needing pictures. Check out this thread started by me late brother many moons ago.

Dutchboy.. I have all of his medals and reference material now so I’d be happy to help.

https://gmic.co.uk/topic/9458-matt-p39s-south-african-collection/

Edited September 2, 2019 by fjcp

[Marcon1]

Hi, thanks for your reply.

I've seen your late brothers' threads before and I have used some of his pictures as illustration for my listings.

What I'm looking for now are the ones for which I haven't yet been able to get a picture, I have been looking everywhere.

Online dealers, ebay, bidorbuy, gmic etc, no success so far.

 

PS: I just noticed the obverse of your medal is different than the one shown by me.

KNP Establishment Medal (1987)
Issued to the founder members of the force.

Insignia: A circular silver medal displaying the KNP badge (obverse) and the KwaNdebele coat of arms (reverse).

KNP Medal (1990)
Another commemorative medal.

 

Insignia: A circular silver medal depicting the KNP badge (obverse) and the KwaNdebele coat of arms with the words 'KwaNdebele Polisiemedalje' (reverse).

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Marcon1

[fjcp]

Here are all the medals I have, let me know if any of these you’d like close ups of.

 

jan

 

Couple orders/medals missing from those

pics... will try to get them tomorrow.

 

 

jan

[fjcp]

There’s a southern cross decoration hiding somewhere.... that and a police medal for bravery.... 

[fjcp]

[Marcon1]

Damn, what a collection - I'm jealous

Are they all full sized medals ??

[Marcon1]

Hi Jan,

Could you post close ups of the following 11 medals.

The first one is a new one for me, the others I only have a reverse picture or a picture which is different (the 6th. medal has a blue centre on the picture that I have and the 8th one is missing a star between the wreath).

 

Anyway, a clear reverse AND obverse picture of the 11 medals would be very appreciated.

With thanks (Dank U).

Marco.

 

[fjcp]

Hi Marco,

 

Thank you and sorry it's taken so long to reply. It's been a busy week.

I'll post all the medals today and try to asnwer some of your questions.

 

I'll start with the Bophutatswana  defense force merit medal you posted.

I've looked and unfortunately I have no answer why these are different. Yours seems to be the prototypical version and mine clearly is the odd one out. Quality is not bad and the stamping is pretty clean both front and rear. It might be a fake but my brother bought it in the mid 90's so who knows if they were faked that far back. The other option is it's something else. After all there is so much not know about these homeland medals.

Jan

 

 

Here are the closeup pictures of my version, difficult medal to photograph well.

Jan

[fjcp]

One more.

This is the Correctional sevices medal for merit from Kwazulu. 

I believe the ribbon is incorrect on both of ours.  I read about the difference with yours just a few days ago but I can't find it anymore.

I'll keep looking. 

 

jan

 

 

 

This is the Insignia for bravery , Ciskei police with correct ribbon.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by fjcp

[fjcp]

Here is the Ciskei Decoration for Merit. Very shiny and almost impossible to photograph.

I know you didn't ask for this one but I had the pictures handy so here goes.

 

Ciskei medal for faithful service

 

not sure if the ribbon is corect, but it looks like it might be original. 

[fjcp]

Gazankulu police star for merit.

Worst star shape ever, but sure is pretty.

KwaNdebele police 30 year faithful service medal.

Lebowa police star for merit. (30 year service)

[fjcp]

Bophutatswana, faithful service prisons. (long service good conduct 30 years)

DIY paper ribbon is wrong,

[fjcp]

Bophutatswana, faithful service prisons. (long service good conduct 10 years)

wrong ribbon

 

KwaZulu good service medal 10 year service

 

I believe this is the same medal with an incorrect ribbon added for good old fashioned confusion.

 both are numbered on the edge.

[fjcp]

Found some more medals. This time from Venda.

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by fjcp

[Marcon1]

Hi Jan,

Thanks for the pictures.

I've added them to my listings, now I at least know what they are and how they look like when I see them on Ebay or Bodorbuy.

[archie777]

Fjcp,

 

I will share the correct ribbons for some of your medals later

 

Regards

Archie

[archie777]

Fjcp,

 

I didn't forgot and will share more pictures with the correct ribbons for the Bop Prisons Service medals later

 

Regards

Archie

[archie777]

Macron1 & fjcp,

Unfortunately no colour pictures of the following award

Bophuthatswana Prison Service Decoration for Valour

 

Drawing with colour of ribbon

Macron1 & fjcp,

Colour pictures of the following award

Bophuthatswana Prison Service Medal for Valour

 

[archie777]

Macron1 & fjcp,

Unfortunately no colour pictures of the following award

Bophuthatswana Prison Service Decoration for Merit

 

Picture also of the Commisioner Maj Genl CSS Delport wearing the Decoration

Macron1 & fjcp,

 

Pictures of Jan for the following award

Bophuthatswana Prison Service Medal for Merit

 

His ribbon is wrong and those for the Bophuthatswana Defence Force Merit Medal.

 

Attached is also the correct colour  of the ribbon

 

Macron1 & fjcp,

 

Unfortunately no colour pictures of the following award

Bophuthatswana Prison Service Commendatiin Medal

 

 

 

[archie777]

Macron1 & fjcp,

 

Pictures of Jan for the following award

Bophuthatswana Prison Service Medal for Faithful Service (Gold) for 30 Years Service

 

Macron1 & fjcp,

 

Pictures for the following award

 

Bophuthatswana Prison Service Medal for Faithful Service (Silver) for 20 Years Service

Macron1 & fjcp,

 

Pictures of Jan for the following award

 

Bophuthatswana Prison Service Medal for Faithful Service (Bronze) for 10 Years Service

[fjcp]

hi Archie,

 

Thank you for posting those ribbons. Now the struggle begins to find some ribbons.

 

thanks

Jan.

 

ps.I replied to your PM, happy to help.

 

[archie777]

fjcp,

 

Hi Jan,

 

I saw you said that you replied, but I didn't get any response, regarding the pictures needed

 

Sorry to bother you so much

 

Regards

Archie

[Marcon1]

Hi Archie,

 

Again thank you for the pictures.

One tiny remark, your picture of Bophuthatswana Prison Service Medal for Faithful Service (Silver) for 20 Years Service is the same as the (gold) 30 years version.

You can see the same dots and marks on both versions.

I'm so used to look for small differences on medals that I could not help but noticing 😉

 

Marcon1.