Unknown Arabic Medal ??

[Linasl]

Hello.  I have an opportunity to buy an Arabic medal.  I have no information, and only one photo.

Can you help?

Thanks.  Linas

[oamotme]

Dear Linas,

This is the Kingdom of Egypt Chamber of Deputies (Majlis al Nawab) neck badge - it should be accompanied by a lapel badge - see attached. There is also a Chamber of Senators (Majlis al Shiukh) badge also accompanied by a lapel badge. Initially made by Lattes and then by Bichay. The Kingdom of Libya had a similar series by Bichay in black enamel.

Regards,

Owain

[Linasl]

Thanks Owain.

Linas

Owain - do you know approximate dates>

Linas

[oamotme]

Linas,

I think they commenced just after the First World War and would have ceased with the overthrow of the monarchy in 1952. The early pieces are by Lattes but from about mid-1930s plus they were by Bichay - same workship different name.

Owain

[Rusty Greaves]

Here are a few additional images of Kingdom of Egypt Parliament badges to complement the 1st post of Linasl and Owain's significant information about the insignia. 

The 1st set of images below are of another example of a neck badge with the associated ribbon. These images come from a past auction on The Orient Treasures website (https://www.theorienttreasures.com/shop-now/orders-medals-decorations/egypt-order-of-parliament-house-of-repesentatives-neck-badge-medal-nichan-rare). The only information in the auction description is that the diameter of the neck badge is 65 mm. All of these images from The Orient Treasures can be zoomed for some additional detail. 

Obverse of a neck badge of the Egyptian Chamber of Deputies (the Lower House of Parliament) from The Orient Treasures website. Hassan Kamel-Kelisi-Morali employs a different form of English spelling for this house of Parliament on his flicker photostream (see images below) as: Magles el Shoyoukh (just in case some form of that English spelling turns up in other info on this badge).

Close-up view of the obverse of this same neck badge showing crazing and loss of some of the enamel (it almost appears to be peeling of the white enamel, especially in the upper left of the central inscribed medallion). 

Reverse of the same Chamber of Deputies neck badge showing the maker's hallmark in the center of the medallion's boss. 

Close-up view of the reverse of this same neck badge showing the maker's hallmark in greater detail. This image can be zoomed for better detail of this mark. Although the mark "LATTES" is most common on the J. Lattes-made medals of various Egyptian orders, this Arabic mark appears to be Lattes' hallmark in Arabic. I am basing this on the signature mark in the lower left of an original Lattes design for these badges that is shown as the 6th and 7th-to-last images in this post. His signature "Lattes" appears in the lower right of these same illustrations. This image of the reverse shows the placement of the 3 Egyptian hallmarks in the long central ray of the inferior set of 5 rays composing each of the 8 groups of rays (divided from each other by a small ray) that are the embellishment of the badge. The resolution of the image is too low to read the silver hallmarks on this example. However, the hallmarks on the eMedals example illustrated below can be identified.  

Above is an image of set of insignia for the Egyptian Parliament, from a past eMedals auction (Item: W1572; https://www.emedals.com/africa/egypt/an-egyptian-upper-house-of-parliamentary-set-w1572). This grouping is identified in the auction description as representing the "Upper House of Parliament", which should be the Chamber of Senators that Owain mentioned above. The auction group consists of a neck badge (without a ribbon), sash with crescent & stars pin, sash badge, and lapel pin. Unfortunately, it appears that this is a combined set of regalia from both the  Chamber of Senators (the Upper House) and the Chamber of Deputies (the Lower House). I did not initially pay attention to the forms of the inscriptions on the central medallions of the badges, but they indicate that the  neck badge and lapel badge are for the Chamber of Senators, while the sash badge is that of the Chamber of Deputies. The auction description provides listed dimensions, but they are not specifically identified for each component; given as 63 mm (sash badge?), 30 x 41 mm (lapel badge?), and 62 mm (neck badge?). The corrosion (rust?) of the crescent & stars pin suggests that it is not silver, as are the the neck badge, sash badge, and lapel badge. Note in relation to 3 portraits at the end of this post, that there is no contrasting-colored border of the above sash. The mixture of badges leaves me unclear whether the form of the sash (not having a colored border) is that of the Chamber of Deputies or the Chamber of Senators. All of these eMedals photos can be enlarged for additional details. 

Obverse of the neck badge from this auction group, that is an emblem of the Egyptian Chamber of Senators insignia, showing damage to some of the green enamel of the margin of the central medallion. 

Oblique view of the same eMedals Egyptian Chamber of Senators neck badge, showing well the textured background underneath the green enamel of the margin of the central medallion. 

Reverse of the same neck badge showing the lack of any maker's hallmark, but the position of the 3 Egyptian a silver assay hallmarks can be seen in the center of the most inferior rays of the embellishment. 

Oblique view of the reverse of this same Egyptian Chamber of Senators neck badge showing some construction details. 

Image of the same eMedals neck badge's reverse, rotated to show the 3 Egyptian silver assay hallmarks in their readable orientation. The first hallmark at the left is the silver purity assay mark of the Cairo office. Although not completely clear in this image (nor in the one below) this appears to indicate 900 silver. The central hallmark is the cat (form with the raised tail) indicating that this is Egyptian-made silver. This mark was used between 1916-1946 (although there are a couple exceptions, I documented one on a King Farouk I medal commemorating the closure of the Mixed Courts on 14 October, 1949 that employed the cat hallmark with a correct date hallmark for 1948-1949). The hallmark at the right is the date hallmark that appears to be an "E" rather than an "F"; "E" indicating marking at the assay office in 1930-1931. The photo of the set of hallmarks on the sash badge of this auction grouping (shown below) is of higher resolution and shows the marks a bit more clearly. That set of hallmarks also bears the "E" date hallmark, although the sash badge is that of the Chamber of Deputies, not the Chamber of Senators as is this neck badge. 

Obverse of the lapel badge of this same past eMedals auction grouping that also bears the inscription on the central medallion indicating it is an insignia of the Egyptian Chamber of Senators. 

Oblique view of the obverse of this same lapel badge. 

Reverse of the same eMedals Egyptian Chamber of Senators lapel badge showing the lack of any maker's marks or silver hallmarks. It appears to show attachments for a missing set of  pin, hinge, and latch rather than what may be a simple clip on the example Owain illustrated above. Such a clip also seen in the Libyan examples illustrated by Owain in his post of 18 May, 2016 on the thread "Libya-unknown order and medal" started by James Hoard on 15 May, 2016, here in "the Middle East & Arab States" section (see link to that post below).

Obverse image of the sash badge from this eMedals auction grouping that bears the inscription on the central medallion of the the Chamber of Deputies, not that of the Chamber of Senators regalia. This sash badge also exhibits a fair bit of damage to the green enamel. 

Oblique view of the obverse of the same sash badge of this eMedals set of Parliamentary insignia of the Chamber of Deputies. The damage to the enamel provides an opportunity to see the textured background of the margin to the central medallion. Does this technical feature reflect more light and "brighten" the enamel around the inscriptions? 

Photo of the reverse of the sash badge from the same eMedals set of the Chamber of Deputies regalia showng the maker's mark in the center of the boss and the position of the 3 Egytian silver assay hallmarks on the center of the most inferior ray of the embellishment. This example shows the same Arabic script Lattes manufacturer's hallmark and placement of the assay hallmarks as seen on the 1st example in this post from The Oriental Treasures website. 

Oblique view of the reverse of this same same sash badge. 

Rotated close-up view of the 3 Egyptian assay hallmarks on the same sash badge of the Chamber of Deputies. This image shows the "E" data hallmark (1930-1931) somewhat more clearly, but the silver purity hallmark (probably 900 silver) from the Cairo office is not much clearer than on the photo of the hallmark on the reverse of the neck badge (of the Chamber of Senators) from this set. 

An example of possible Egyptian Parliament Chamber of Deputies neck badge or sash badge, from the Gramho.com Instagram site (https://gramho.com/media/1930336425275049855). This example sports a crown suspension device attached to the suspension ring. I do not know if this may be a variant of the Egyptian Parliamentary insignia or an indication of a problem with this piece? 

Example of an Egyptian neck badge of the Chamber of Senators on the right and the very similarly designed Parliamentary insignia (Majlis al Nawab) in black enamel that Owain mentioned on the left. This photo is from the flickr photostream of Hassan Kamel-Kelisi-Morali (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kelisli/3048891899/in/photostream/), courtesy of Catherine Bichay,  and is copyrighted by Hassan Kamel-Kelisi-Morali. 

Owain provided good illustrations of the Libyan insignia in the following link: 

Below are several undated images also from Hassan Kamel-Kelisi-Morali's flickr photostream showing original painted designs of the insignia for the Egyptian Parliament's Chamber of Deputies and the Chamber of Senators. These designs were created by J. Lattes. All of these images are courtesy of Catherine Bichay and are copyrighted by Hassan Kamel-Kelisi-Morali.

Original painted design for the insignia of the Egyptian Chamber of Deputies by J. Lattes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kelisli/3049733618/in/photostream/). Above is the design employed for the neck badge (and sash badge?) and below is the design for the lapel badge. Did the Chamber of Deputies also have a sash badge that is similar to their neck badge and the sash badge example shown above for the eMedals Chamber of Senators set? Note the inclusion of the Ottoman (Khedival) crescent & 3 stars attached to the superior portion of the rayed embellishment, a feature apparently never employed in the construction of these for use by members of the Egyptian Parliament. However, the eMedals sash shown above and the portrait photos below show that this Ottoman-derived symbol was employed as a separate insignia on the Parliamentary sashes. 

Close-up detail of the neck badge/sash badge design from the same illustration of the Egyptian Chamber of Deputies regalia by J. Lattes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kelisli/3049733638/in/photostream/). 

Close-up detail of the lapel badge design for the Chamber of Deputies from the same J. Lattes design illustration (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kelisli/3049733656/in/photostream/). 

Illustration of the design for the Chamber of Senators insignia by J. Lattes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kelisli/3048892191/in/photostream/). This shows the form of the neck badge and lapel badge that was adopted for the Chamber of Senators, as seen in the eMedals set illustrated above (without the crescent & 3 stars). Note the Arabic script name of Lattes in the lower left of this illustration that matches the marks on the reverse of the neck example from The Oriental Treasures and on the reverse of the eMedals sash badge that are shown above. 

Detail of the lapel badge from this same illustration by Lattes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kelisli/3049734076/in/photostream/). 

Illustration of a different design version of the insignia of the Chamber of Senators by J. Lattes that includes the crescent & 3 stars addition, contrasting with the design shown the Chamber of Deputies illustration above, that was apparently never adopted for either House of Parliament (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kelisli/3048891967/in/photostream/). 

Detail close-up of the design for the Chamber of Senators badges from the same Lattes illustration (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kelisli/3049733852/in/photostream/). 

Below are 3 portraits from past eBay auctions of individuals wearing either the Egyptian Parliamentary insignia or that of Libya. The eBay seller who offered these specializes in Egyptian portrait photographs, but also sells material from other Middle Eastern countries. He identified all of these portraits as Egyptians (but mistakenly as judges). There are elements in the costume that make it difficult to be certain these are Egyptian members of Parliament (as the only sash I have been able to check is the eMedals example, and whether that is associated with the Chamber of Deputies as indicated by the attached sash badge or with the Chamber of Senators because of the "associated" neck badge and lapel badge in the set is unclear; and if Egyptian, these may be portraits of individuals in the Chamber of Deputies, based on the form of the lapel badges). Unlike the eMedals sash shown above with no border, all of the sashes worn in these portraits have borders of contrasting colors. All wear a lapel badge of the form that Owain illustrated above as that of the Chamber of Deputies, but none are wearing neck badges. Unfortunately the resolution of these portraits does not permit comparisons of the inscriptions on the badge to Egyptian and Libyan Parliamentary insignia. I discussed these portraits near the end of my post of 7 November, 2018 on the thread "Egyptian Khedival Judges Badge question" that I stated on 17 November, 2016 here in the "Middle East & Arab States" section, to correct the identifications I had previously mistakenly made by included their portraits in other posts as "judges".

Studio portrait of an individual who may be a member of the Egyptian Parliament showing the sash with crescent & star pin, sash badge, and lapel badge. This could be a member of the Libyan Parliament, although the eBay source of this portrait identified it as that of an Egyptian, although mistakenly stated to be that of a judge. I contacted the seller and he changed part of the identification to a member of Parliament, as can be seen in the former link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Armenian-photographer-in-Egypt-member-of-the-Egyptian-Upper-House-of-Parliament/273500928337 to this image own eBay. The form of the lapel badge is similar to that illustrated by Owain (and in the Lattes design illustrations) above for the Egyptian Chamber of Deputies, not the Egyptian Chamber of Senators.The dark border of the sash is not seen on the Parliamentary sash from the eMedals auction set above. Was there a different border for the sashes worn by the Chamber of Deputies compared with that of the Chamber of Senators?  No neck badge is present. The photo above was identified as an 18 x 13 cm original print from Egypt, taken by an Armenian studio, K. Papazian in Cairo. I previously illustrated this portrait as the 6th photo in my post of 7 November, 2018 on the Mixed Courts of Egypt.

Another image of an individual who may be a member of the Egyptian Chamber of Deputies, from the same eBay seller as for the individual portrait shown above (https://www.ebay.com/itm/EGYPT-OLD-VINTAGE-PHOTOGRAPH-Judge-with-the-scarf-/273105393192?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l44720).  This 14 x 9 cm original print was from a past eBay auction with the identification: "Egypt old vintage photo of judge with scarf". His sash has an identical dark border to that shown above, the crescent & 3 stars pin, and he wears the same form of lapel badge as shown in Owain's post above and in the Lattes designs identifying the Chamber of Deputies. He also is not wearing a neck badge. I included this image as the 4th photo in my post of 7 November, 2018. 

Another eBay photo of a man who may be a member of the Egyptian Parliament (https://www.ebay.com/itm/EGYPT-OLD-VINTAGE-PHOTOGRAPH-Judge-With-a-medal-and-scarf/273500915471). I previously used this image as the 7th photo in my post of 7 November, 2018. His sash shows what appears to be a lighter border than the two portraits above (although it can be quite difficult to distinguish actual colors in black & white images depending on lighting, etc.), it also exhibits the same crescent & 3 stars pin. His lapel badge is the same form shown in Owain's post above and the Lattes design illustrations for the Chamber of Deputies. No neck badge is present. Unlike the 2 portraits above, this man wears a turban and gallibaya. This 22 x 15 cm original print was described as from Egypt, but no studio was identified. This portrait also was mistakenly identified  by the eBay seller as that of an Egyptian judge (understandably, as judges of the Egyptian Indigenous Courts wore a sash with a crescent and 1-9 stars [and 3 was a common configuration], although some scrutiny is need to see that the form of that sash and the configuration of the crescent & stars is quite different than the pins in these portraits and the one shown attached to the emedals Parliamentary sash). 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Rusty Greaves

[oamotme]

Rusty,

Superb post - many thanks.

The Arabic 'Lattes' mark reads 'Lattes Bimasr' (Lattes of Egypt) - this signature is also on some of the art work.

The Egyptian pieces are inscribed 'Ad Dowla Al Masriyah' (The State of Egypt}.

The black Libyan version is inscribed  'Al Mamlaka Al Libia Al Muthaida' (United Kingdom of Libya).

The Egyptian piece with a crown is new to me and as you note may indicate a problem.

Kind regards,

Owain

P.S. I attach images of the Libyan sets.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by oamotme

[Linasl]

Thank you all very much!

Linas

[Rusty Greaves]

Owain,

Thanks for the inscription translations and including the additional Libyan photos. The only translation I came across was associated with flickr photostream of askamel (https://www.flickr.com/photos/askamel/2074544038/) showing a badge that is not specifically identified beyond the tag: "The Egyptian Parliamentary Star". Today I paid attention to the inscriptions on the central medallion, and realized that I had not done so in my previous post and made some errors in attribution of the badges. I have cheated and gone back to correct those in yesterday's post. The most problematic part of what I wrote yesterday, is that it now appears that the badges associated with the eMedals auction listing are a mix of the Chamber of Senators (neck badge and lapel badge) and the Chamber of Deputies (the sash badge). Of course, this leaves me unsure whether the unbordered sash in that auction grouping may represent the form for the Chamber of Deputies or the Chamber of Senators. 

Photo of the obverse of a neck badge or sash badge of the Egyptian Chamber of Deputies from askamel's flickr photostream. This image is copyrighted by askamel. Although not identified as to which House of Parliament this badge belongs, the inscription on the central medallion is that of the Chamber of Deputies. Askamel provides the following translations for this image: for the upper inscription line in the green enameled margin of the central medallion: "The Egyptian State" (the same as your translation); for the the white enameled central medallion: "The House of Representatives"; and for the lower inscription line in the green enameled margin of the central medallion:  “All the Powers Come From the Nation”. Owain, I wonder if I can trouble you for comment on these translations and one for the central medallion inscription of the badges for the Chamber of Senators? 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Rusty Greaves

[Rusty Greaves]

Above is another photograph from a current eBay auction of a member of the Egyptian Upper House of Parliament, the Chamber of Senators. This low-resolution portrait is from the same eBay seller who offered the other images of members of the Egyptian Parliament that I have posted previously (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Egyptian-vintage-photographer-Judge-with-the-judicial-scarf/274549368559?hash=item3fec6ae6ef:g:Aa4AAOSwvddflthA) on my 24 July, 2020 in this thread. The eBay listing states that this is an original print and the size is 14 X 9 cm. No studio name is visible on the photo and none is included in the auction description. As with several of those images, the eBay listing mistakenly identifies the individual as a judge, but it does state that the source is an unspecified Egyptian photographer. The sash with the crescent & 3 stars is visible, although any border difference from the main body of the sash is not apparent in this photo. The oval shape of the lapel badge is the same for both houses of the Egyptian Parliament, but the six multi-rayed embellishment  can be seen on this badge and identifies this individual as a member of the Chamber of Senators. He wears white tie and a long western-style coat as do 2 of the other portraits of members of the Chamber of Deputies that I included as the 3rd and 4th-to-last photos in my post here of 24 July. 

Although the discussion here presents the 2 insignia as a neck badge and lapel badge, as do some auction listings (for example, a current offering in a Dixons Medals listing of a badge of the Chamber of Senators, SKU 1036054 - https://www.dixonsmedals.com/product/single-medals/order-of-the-nile-egypt-breast-badge-65mm-including-crown-suspension-x-41mm-chamber-of-senators-neck-badge-by-lattes-of-cario-63mm-silver-enamel-hallmarks-for-1927-28-severe-loss-of-green-enamel-wit/- that is strung on an incorrect ribbon and offered with a very anomalous Order of the Nile miniature medal), I have only seen images of a sash badge and lapel badge and none of anyone wearing a neck badge as the regalia for either the Lower House of Parliament Chamber of Deputies or the Upper House of Parliament Chamber of Senators. See the mixed group of insignia from the past eMedals offering in the 5th image of my post of 24 July, 2020 (below 4 illustrations from the Orient Treasures website of a Chamber of Deputies badge strung on a short section of ribbon and identified a "neck badge") showing the sash badge attached to the decorative bow. The only photo I have seen showing the sash badge being worn is shown above as the 3rd-to-last portrait photo in that same post of 24 July. Even the Parliament member wearing traditional garments shown in the last photo of that post is not wearing a neck badge as part of the insignia of his office. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Rusty Greaves